funding of Care for the elderly

We sort of developed a sort of mix and match approach to my mothers care. My sister and I were both working and mum wanted to stay at home. So we split the various things that had to be done from direct personal care to all the admin and dealing with health issues between us. We directly employed a lovely lady to be with her when one or other of us couldn't be. Eventually she couldn't face another winter in her own house. We found a brilliant care home. It had superb facilities and kind staff. It was run by a charitable trust so any profits went straight back into the home for the residents benefit. It really couldn't have been better.( I'd like to go there myself one day. Sadly it closed last month.)
Mum died only a few months later. I think the combination of care we gave her worked well. However, we're all so different. One size definitely does not fit all. I like the sound of these retirement complexes. Fingers crossed for the future. Its about all we can do!

I would agree that this is a very complex subject but I would reiterate that the problems of cost have only got so bad since care homes have been privatised and profits are king.

Couldnt agree more Witzend. Its wonderful to see the way professional Carers treat everyone with dignity and deal with some really difficult situations with great tact and patience. Its difficult to be patient 24hrs a day when all you want is a reasonable nights sleep. Mum gets care my DH and I could no longer provide and she is so much happier. She self funded until her money fell below the State threshold. Thank heaven we dont live in London, so the topup we pay is ( at the moment) not too onerous, but not a way we thought we might be spending some of our pension.

This is a very complex subject, but I feel qualified to comment, having cared for Mum for 37 years in our home. Yes, I now have to pay top up fees to ensure my Mum remains in a reasonable ( not luxurious , but very caring) care home. To those who say categorically that relatives should pay I would ask if they ever consider the financial and emotional strain which may have already existed , long before the relative went into a care home. ( do they realise that a Carers allowance cannot be claimed alongside a state pension , just as one example). More importantly, I am frustrated by observing that some relatives simply close their eyes to the fact that the person in the Care Home can benefit so much from a chat or simple entertainment, which the carers do not have time to provide. Yes, we need a better funding solution, but lets start a campaign to recognise that being in a Care Home does not mean an end to laughing, singing and living in general.

With the best will in the world, relatives sometimes need more care than family can provide at home. Especially now, when so many people in their 50s and 60s still need to work, it may simply not be possible to look after someone who a) can't safely be left even for short periods, b) is up and down half the night, banging and shouting (like my FiL) so that nobody in the house ever gets anything like a proper night's sleep.

It makes me cross when people imply that anyone who puts a relative in a care home is too selfish or uncaring to look after them themselves. People who like to pontificate about this might try looking after someone with at least moderate dementia, on their own, for a month, and see how they get on.

I know absolutely nothing about Ana's relationship with her relatives, so this isn't personal in any way. What I do know is that some families are dysfunctional. They really aren't all Bisto families oozing caring and happiness.

Within my own extended family, I know of a father who disowned his son, because he's gay, a son who emigrated to get away from a controlling mother, a mother who plays mind games with her children, sets them against each other and does her best to make them feel guilty. I know other people, whose relatives behave in similar or worse ways. I have known parents whose relationship with their children, even as minors, borders on neglect and children who treat their parents appallingly and can't wait to get their hands on any inheritance.

I don't believe children necessarily 'owe' their parents anything. I don't believe they should be part of the equation, unless the money is going to come out of an inheritance.

Goodness, what did I say to deserve that?

I agree with daphnedill's post of 15.01.

ANA Should be 'not someone you don't know'

ANA. When you consider that the member of your family needing care is not someone you don't but could be your mum dad or a grandparent then yes.They looked after you? a bit of compassion would not go amiss.

I think the reason top ups are not allowed from the person's own funds, is that those funds will be depleted that much faster. I gather the threshold below which the person does not pay for their care (other than any pensions less something like £23 a week for personal expenses) is about £14000.

Of course some people will have a lot,less. After an aunt of mind died in her lovely care home (she was self funded) we were asked to leave all her clothes rather than take them to charity shops, since they had residents with hardly any cash and no relatives to buy them anything they needed. There were some pretty old nighties which I assumed they would not want, but they said please leave everything, someone will use it.
Should add, in case anyone is shocked at the thought of anyone wearing someone else's old nighties, that beyond a certain stage of dementia most people do not notice or care what they wear. My own mother had always been very smart and fastidious, but even in the earlier stages all that was a thing of the past.

I never got to the bottom of that lillie, unless it's a contingency plan for when the resident's money is completely gone. I think, actually, that you can refuse to pay it and the council absorb the cost but I'm not sure. We just agreed because the home was the one we wanted for mum.

Why can't the resident pay the top up from her capital kittylester?

Some up to date figures - just for information.

At present my mum is in a care home and, because her assets are below a certain level (23K from memory!) she gets help towards her costs. The Care Home fees are currently around £1,100 per week and mum now pays around £800 per month. This is paid from her state and private pension, which she continues to receive.

When the state pension goes up, Mum is reassessed and her contribution goes up by more or less the same amount, so her bank balance remains more or less the same. She has very few other expenses except new clothes.

One of my brothers pays a weekly 'top up' which was £35 but may have increased.

If Mum lives long enough to reduce her capital to, I think, £11K, all her fees would be paid but one of us would still have to pay the top up! The resident is not allowed to pay the top up it has to be a family member.

When she first went into a home she had a fair bit of capital from selling her flat and paid the fees herself. That went fairly quickly!

Round here there are very few, if any, Council run homes and most good homes charge a similar amount.

In British law, there is no such concept as a family, apart from spouses, once the children have reached adulthood. It works both ways. If relatives are responisble for care home fees, then parents should receive benefits for their stay-at-home unemployed children, but don't. Over 18s are independent adults in their own right. Parents have no responsibility nor rights regarding them.

What happens if families are estranged and have had no contact with children for years? What about step parents and parents who had no part in a child's life after divorce?

, morethan2
Charleygirls idea appeals to me too. But husband says we're both going to go together. I wonder what he has in mind?
But to go back to Ana's reply on the first page -
'Why do you think family members should have to pay for their relatives' care?'
Why not?

Oh Charleygirl that made me I know I'm posting too much today. Its because I'm home with a stinker of a cold. So don't feel like doing to much apart from 'gransnetting

In west sussex there used to be 'supported' sheltered housing, due to cut backs west sussex has cut this funding and theres no longer any support! there are now vulnerable residents who have no family that are no longer supported which need desperately need it.

I agree, Anya, so many different issues and individual scenarios here, impossible to cover them all. In our case, an adult sibling took all the inheritance money in advance with the blessing of the parent, spent it, then dumped the parent and expected the other sibling to contribute towards the care! I'd rather help out the old man down the road or a perfect stranger, so it's not just a question of money or the inheritance which we will never see.

We can afford to care for all our elderly in the way that best suits their needs. We simply have to cancel Trident and prioritise looking after people not having the potential to kill millions of them.

I have no relatives, my house would be sold and any savings put towards my care. When the money runs out I have no idea what would happen. With luck I will drop dead in the street with no enthusiastic first aider near by.

There are many different issues here.

Why should those who haven't saved for their old age get free care, while those who have assets have to sell up?

Why should the elderly think it's OK to dump the cost of their care onto The State when they have assests they could use to fund care?

Why should adult children think they are entitled to inherit their parents asssets when they're not prepared to look after them in their old age?

I'm not saying these are necessarily my views just summing up the main issues.

I did say families should HELP to pay, not the whole lot. If they can afford it. Raising the money from taxes etc means that other people are in fact paying for your parents care, is that right? Where do you think the govt. gets the money from?
I agree that these retirement villages sound ideal, but the prices are very high, not many people can afford to buy in such a place.

ninathenana, MIL herself asked us for the contribution but DH smelt a rat when he had to sign a monthly direct debit, the amount of which would no doubt have risen year on year. We assume she may have been wanting a top up for a specific home as all her pensions were taken as you say. In the end we refused and she took umbridge, no longer speaking to us.

My cousins' in-laws in Holland live in a sort of retirement village which has medical services as they become more infirm. The wife became bed ridden, and was moved to a different building, but the husband could visit her anytime of day in the same complex. He still lives there after her death. Great continuity of care.

Retirement villages are all very well for those who have all their marbles. It's a different matter for anyone with dementia, who will eventually need constant care and supervision.

Over the years I have heard of many cases of someone with not too bad dementia going into their own 'extra care' or 'assisted living' flat, but so often, sooner or later - and maybe sooner - it is no longer viable, since the person is constantly locking themselves out, knocking on neighbours' doors at all hours of the day or night, maybe getting aggressive and accusing neighbours of stealing things, wandering off and getting lost, etc.

Might add that what really makes me mad in discussions about elderly care, is when politicians or celebrities piously tell us how dreadful it is that we put any of our elderly in care homes at all - we should care for them ourselves, as they do in other countries - which is in any case not true.

The fact is that many, many people do their absolute best to care for relatives at home as long as they possibly can, but nobody who hasn't done it can begin to imagine how hard and exhausting it can be to care for someone with dementia. All too often it is NOT a case of a dear old thing just getting a bit more forgetful, and merely needing a little kindness and patience and lots of cups of tea.