funding of Care for the elderly

While the majority of care is in the private sector when 'profits are king' as synonomous so rightly says, then the cost of care will continue to be hugely inflated and limited.

Like the railways, care of the elderly ought to be brought back into the fold and run by local authorities. It should only make enough profit, after wages, heating, maintenance, etc to put back into the system to fund care at home schemes. With less profit needed better qualified and better paid staff could be recruited.

Rather than budget cuts and austerity measures (that are not working) a big programme of building, buying up and converting buildings for social and residential care should be undertaken. This would give employment for local builders in the short term and long term employment to well qualified care staff.

And if the private sector can run these at a profit all we ask is that the public sector break even. Is that too much to ask?

I don't think they make much of a profit. Many of our local private ones have closed and the largest operator went bust. Just last week one went bust and families and local authorities were given 24 hours notice to find other accommodation. Good care that meets quality standards costs a lot of money. The money has to come from somewhere.

We were very lucky in that my mother's care home - a specialist dementia - was run by a not for profit organisation (beginning with A). It was very good, but still far from 'cheap'.

I have often known people ask how on earth even less expensive care homes can cost so much. As I have frequently pointed out, if you work out the cost per day, factor in that it includes all meals and drinks, all laundry (often a lot), plus help with washing, dressing, etc. and someone on hand all day, all night, 365 days a year - and then compare that to the cost of just B&B anywhere half reasonable in the area, it often does not seem nearly so excessive.

I don't know if this link will work, but I typed in my postcode and it gave me the average costs for nursing and care costs in Warwickshire. You might be able to do the same for your area.

Care costs

My grandma stayed at home until a week before she died in hospital. She had regular carers going in and out for a couple of years, plus me. I am not in anyway trying to "big myself up" but there is no way she could have stayed at home if I hadn't been around. I saw her virtually every day, did all her shopping, doctors and hospital appointments etc. The carers only stay for around 10-15 minutes at a time and without me I suspect she would have ended up in a LA care home. We are a tiny family and none of us would have had the money to pay for private care.

Yes, it works. The average cost for residential care here is about £600. Where a friend lives it's only just over £300. That's a huge difference,

.Jane that might explain why the private care homes here are thriving and the owners driving round in big cars yet in other areas homes are closing.

Gilly I agree that where possible that's the way forward. Most of us would wish to stay at home with support as long as possible and having relatives or friends who can drop in and check, do the shopping and put the washing on, etc. is the greatest help.

I think I read somewhere that only 1 in 5 old people need long term residential care.

In Scotland we have the much vaunted 'free personal care'. In reality that means knowing how to navigate the complicated system sufficiently to know what to do, form filling, assessment then finally, if you're lucky you might get a 15 minute visit to do everything. A different and harried carer every time etc etc. I organised it all for my poor MiL and jumped through hoops to get funding for direct payments so we could at least employ someone we could trust. This came through too late. She had died. A saving I suppose

This link has some of the costs across the country

www.which.co.uk/elderly-care/financing-care/financing-a-care-home/381597-care-home-fees

My father had loads wrong with him - cancer, heart problems, breathing difficulties, mobility issues and more. He was adamant that he wanted to die at home and pleaded with us not to call an ambulance if he collapsed (as he had done). He was lucky, because had neighbours who kept an eye on him and a community nurse, who popped in regularly. We all lived miles away, so did what we could, but we couldn't look after him every day. In the end, he collapsed and died at home, which was what he had wanted. He was relatively independent until the end, but his heart just gave up.

My mother is now very ill, but doesn't want to go into a care home either. There are no signs of dementia, so fingers crossed she can also stay at home, although my sisters and I will have to cobble something together - probably a combination of us and a paid carer/nurse.

Ooops! Just noticed that Anya had already posted a link to the costs of care.

I forgive you DD as it's the Season of Good Will

That's an interesting link.
For the Newcastle area it's about £489 per week which is about double what my Mum paid around 15 years ago. I wonder why the cost varies so much?
We wanted her to stay with us, but she was too independent. She would rather have stayed in her own house, but she needed almost constant care and that would have been even dearer than the Care home she eventually went to.Which was excellent but had to close soon after she died.
Also interesting that relatives are asked to pay 'topup ' in some parts of the country.

Two factors occur to me.

Firstly, the price of property for the care home is likely to vary.

Secondly, wages are likely to be higher in some areas. I know that round here, even the lowest level carers are paid above the minimum wage - around £8-10 an hour, because it's so difficult to find employees.

Thirdly, some owners will get as much profit as the market will tolerate. Areas with a high number of wealthier people can charge more. I read somewhere that around 10% of pensioner households have assets of over £1 million, but they are likely to be concentrated in certain areas. Approximately the same number have no savings or assets at all.

Three factors - the third one was an afterthought.

It is the mark of a civilised society to care for the elderly, sick, frail etc.

Jane10 ,I'm also in Scotland and my late mother had fantastic care at home,nurses three times a day a home help who cooked( heated food I'd made) did her shopping and washing and was happy to sit for a blether when she had time .Mum went into hospital for a routine problem and stayed for the last 12 weeks oof her life,the care given there was equally good ,my mother had never eaten hospital food even when she was young and in the maternity ward so I provided her food every day ,lunch and dinner ,but the staff were great at brining in a bun or her favourite rhubarb tart for tea and they had abrilliant selection of old 30's and 40's movies on video for their old folk to watch .I wont hear anyone run down local care for the elderly ,what we experienced was second to none

Well Paddyann all I can say is that you were lucky. I should say that MiL wasn't ill. She didn't need nurses. Maybe that's the difference. Back then (2008/9) funding came from either healthcare or social care budgets. Health needs opened doors to care that wasn't available if just old and frail. One night MiL fell and lay all night as she didn't want to bother anyone, she was admitted to hospital. Eventually she was assessed as needing palliative care and taken in to a care of the elderly ward where she could not have had kinder or more thoughtful care. She died there very peacefully. It was a brilliant place. Naturally its closed now

I agree with Anya's idea (8.37)that care homes should be brought back into the non-profit sector of local councils. With the increasing demand the cost is going to continue to escalate. Not sure that can be expected though with the current conservative govt.

Not so sure about local councils. They can be so top heavy administratively. Is there a place for not for the development of not for profit third sector organisations? They wouldn't be so tied to the political need for short term thinking from election to election (council and parliamentary)

Too many 'not's!

I wonder if it has occurred to the Government that the increasing numbers of young people renting homes because they will never have a chance of buying means an increasing number of people who will have nothing to sell if they ever need care?

Govts only think short term. Three to five years or whenever the next election is. We need to have proper long term strategy.

If someone has never worked officially, they might have done cash in hand jobs, lived in a council house the chances are they are entitled to every benefit under the sun. If they have worked hard all their life and paid their taxes, into a works pension then their get nothing from the state.