Castro

Eleothan said he lived a modest lifestyle, owning a marina and an island !

Thanks petra. I rather thought that it was something like that! So it suited both sides for different reasons. How,strange, two countries at daggers drawn, but still able to have a 'nod, nod, wink, wink' arrangement!

It was in Castro's interest to keep Guantanamo going. He owned a private marina in the Bay of Pigs. Also, a short hop from the mainland is a little island called Cayo Piedra which he also owned and where he went with his wife and children to get away from the masses.
As Guantanamo was so well gaurded the plebs had no idea what was going on.

Hang on, nobody is criticising you dj, far from it. you really are most dreadfully sensitive! Obviously people on here are unaware of the exact times you spend teaching as it's not really important that we should know. I did say you or people intellectually like you, so your absence is hardly a big deal in fact probably not noticed at all, so certainly no criticism at your lack of appearance as there are plenty of others to call on if needs be.
Thank you for the link Maizie. Who would have thought that a valid innocuous question would provoke such a squall!! I wish I'd never mentioned it!

Well, I've just come on the internet, having spent all day until 16.45 teaching my grandson, and believe it or not, Guantanamo Bay didn't come into it!
Now I find I have been criticised for not being on GN.
Sorry, niggly, for not being so obliging. However, as Maizie said, she did give you a link. She's quite as intellectual as me.

I've even given you a link...

No as I thought somebody like dj and other intellectuals on here were bound to know. Obviously, surprisingly they don't so I will Google it!

No answers over Guantanamo Bay! It's a genuine question!

Have you tried googling it?

www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=why+does+the+US+have+access+to+Guantanamo+Bay

You can think what you like dd, but after WW1 Germany was a beaten nation and people were starving. The government was weak and there were riots in the streets with different political groups at each I others throats, literally! The rise of Hitler was on the back of this chaos and the great depression added fuel to the flames. The treaty of Versailles was draconian as a punishment and lesson, which in turn led to deep resentment, bitterness and the rise of the Nazis, who at first were seen as restoring law and order, bring jobs, prosperity and national pride. Eventually at a terrible cost.
No answers over Guantanamo Bay! It's a genuine question!
ab you are quite right about the Labour party, frighteningly UKIP are going to take full advantage of this weakness particularly under their new leader. Surely labour can see this?!

The working class are not downtrodden

I don't think they are in this country though; the downtrodden masses are more a product of extreme regimes.

Daphnedill. I honestly think there are some people who would rather the working classes remained downtrodden and in need of sympathy rather than having the opportunities to have a more comfortable life
Many years ago ( in the Blair government) I read an article that claimed that this was what the Blair government were doing, ie, throwing more and more benefits at the unemployed.
I wish I had kept the article because it summed up so well the contempt that some people have towards the poor.

I will mention it again because it was said to me and there had been no mention of champagne socialists or liberal elite, and you condemned the working classes for not doing as your family did and worked their way out Daphne. These posts can be read on the Labour thread , it was a disgraceful attack on millions of decent people

Ooh! Yes, it could have been, was it another thread?

I won't comment on it again as I am never sure whether I am 'working class' or 'middle class' whatever it may mean anyway.
According to John Prescott we are all middle class, so that solves my dilemma.
However, all my family have and/or do work hard, so .....

I see what you mean a bit more clearly now though.

@ Jalima

I was the poster who mentioned 'victim mentality'. I'm sorry, but that is how I see it, when they sneer at the 'liberal elite' and 'champagne socialists'. I honestly think that there are some people who would rather the working classes remained downtrodden and in need of sympathy rather than having the opportunities to have a more comfortable life, which they see as some kind of class betrayal. Sorry, but that's how I interpret some posts (happy to be proved wrong).

I think TM should issue a statement.

As for going - well, no but at least someone is going.
Mugabe will be there too apparently.
She is not alone:
Most countries choose middle-ranking delegations for ceremony in Havana next week, with Russia’s Vladimir Putin and Britain’s Theresa May opting out
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/28/fidel-castro-funeral-putin-theresa-may

So who will you vote for, annie?

nn,

Blaming the Treaty of Versailles is simplistic. 1920s Germany was a relatively happy and prosperous place. It was the Depression, global meltdown and a weak constitution which played into Hitler's hands which allowed him to seize power - with the blessing of the people. Early 1930s Europe saw waves of nationalisnm, anti-semiticism and the rise of the right-wing. He tapped into the 'Zeitgeist' just as Trump, Farage, Le Pen and others are doing. The difference between Hitler and Stalin is quite stark. Stalin had to use brutality to keep the people down - apart from some minority groups, Hitler didn't.

I did not attribute snything to this government

What you refuse to accept trisher is the fact that without power labour can only object from the oposition benches , labour has a leader who cannot win a general election , why with all the talk of schools and NHS are the Tories and UKIP getting stronger whilst labour is on the skids. The leader does not instill confidence, no use showing him at momentum rallies , he has to win votes across the country , , do you not know voters are put off by the aging hippies and nubile young women who surround him

You will carry on believing he will win the next election, I cannot , I want a labour government

I've tried to understand your socialism Annie but without success. Does it include free education and free healthcare? Because I can tell you now that this government doesn't believe in them and that their reasons for ignoring Cuba are questionable to say the least. You are quite justified in stating your own reasons for not recognising Castro's death, but in not acknowledging that HMG has very different reasons you are attributing them with a care and concern for human rights they have never shown.

Someone mentioned 'victim mentality' on another thread I think (or something like that) referring to the working classes, which I don't agree with incidentally, but
there would be people living under a regime such as the ones you describe nn who could be described like that, happy to be submissive as long as they have healthcare, education (I am sure it was according to a strict doctrine, no debating societies, no internet!) electricity, water - all the basic needs. There will be others who are enthusiastic about the regime who will be the armed guards, henchmen, advisers, government officials etc.

After all, keep the people happy and submissive - give them bread. That is where one or two dictators/rulers went wrong - no bread or pacifiers for the proletariat.

Wonder why Castro tolerated Guantanamo Bay or allowed it in the the first place. Seems a very strange arrangement so there must have been/be a 'reason'! Wonder if money has anything to do with it? Surely not! Even communist Castro couldn't be that hypocritical? could he?!!
My reference to North Korea was to use it as an example of how people who live under dictatorships and want a peaceful, safe life have to be obedient, submissive and wildly enthusiastic, upset to the point of devastation, about the regime they live under, if they know what's good for them. No marches or demonstrations for them! I think in that respect these two regimes along with other dictatorships are very alike.
Yes Hitler did come to power by playing on peoples prejudices, he also cemented this rise by bringing work, rebuilding a conquered, shattered resentful (understandably) nation. He made Germans feel proud again and nationalistic, all recipes for potential disaster. But who caused their despair in the first place? Treaty of Versailles?

i didn't say that trisha , I gave my understanding of socialism as you have given yours

Oh now I understand your socialism is the only one we are allowed to consider, isn't that a bit dictatorial?

Trisher, I replied to your post in which you spoke of socialism, end if