Blair meddling again

Fullfact are experts, though. You shouldn't listen to experts, just UKIP.

Plans for an EU army? Lots of articles here on a page of google search results. Make what you will of them.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=plans+for+an+eu+army&oq=plans+for+an+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.7429j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And here is FullFact's take on it: fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/

Casawan thinks there is going to be one and her GCs might have to serve in it, one of her reasons for voting leave.
dj the fantasy is the EU army and I know about the British MPs. Seems to me an excellent reason for staying in the EU.

I don't understand this thing about an EU army. The UK and most EU countries are already part of NATO, along with America and Canada. Where did this idea that there are plans for an EU army come from?

I think Blair is talking sense about a referendum on the terms of Brexit, but I wish he'd realise that his support is the kiss of death to any good idea.

Er, that's not fantasy, trisher, just so you know.
The EU army is, but not the British MPs.
They are lying about the NHS again, but I don't suppose Blair will meddle to put that right.

I was just thinking that if my GSs had to serve in any army (and I would definitely try to stop them) I would probably prefer it to be a EU army than any controlled by British MPs who can be lied to and lie in order to take the country into war. (If we are going into the realms of fantasy let's go all the way!)

PPS. The above was the real Project Fear along with the hordes of Turks! I trust you didn't fall for it.

PS. There was never going to be an EU army or centralised taxation and I don't know what you mean by the federalists getting their way, so I assume you voted for something else.

@Casawan

Surely you knew what you were hoping for when you placed your X in the box. I really don't understand how anything could have done anything else, given that it was such a major decision.

We will know in just over two years what the deal will be. What I'm asking is how you will feel if that deal is not what you were hoping for, in terms of immigration, trade, Gibraltar and Ireland, etc etc. I really don't understand why that's such a difficult question to answer. What happens if the deal costs the country a great deal and doesn't deliver anything you were hoping for?

I'll be dead or have dementia by then, so I won't know, seeing as it took Canada seven years to sort out a deal with the EU when they were both being friendly.

Exactly, Casawan.

Tegan/ Daphnedll
I do genuinely believe that no one 'knows' what the outcome of Brexit will be, and believing what politicians say while campaigning is a mug's game, which is now clear to everyone. All I could do - and not suggesting I am right or have more insight - was look at the clues that have emerged over a long period of time and try to make a reasoned decision, and then hope it was the right one.
As for my issues being addressed when the terms are known, I don't expect them to be addressed then. That will only become clear as we see what path the EU takes re EU army, centralised taxation, continued expansion and whether the federalists get their way, etc.

Yes, I do, trisher. I know a number of people who work in pharmaceuticals and research. UK pharma is already been being sidelined for EU research grants. It has also already become more difficult for postgraduate research students to obtain long-term funding. My son, who started university this year, is anxious about whether Erasmus funding will be available for the year he is hoping to spend studying abroad. I have a friend whose business relies heavily on imports, whose profits are being affected by the drop in sterling. She adds value to the product and then exports. She's seriously considering closing down completely, making about sixty people redundant, or moving to the EU, but is waiting to see how much extra paperwork will be involved if we don't remain in the single market.

@Casawan

How will if you feel if your issues aren't addressed when the Brexit terms are known? (Genuine question)

I am interested to know if people who voted to leave knew anyone who had benefited from EU involvement or who is working here and would be personally affected by Britain leaving the EU? I know many people who are from different parts of Europe who are living and working here and I know people who have lived or are living and working in Europe and others who benefited from EU funding. I find it very hard to explain Brexit to my friends from other countries.

Brexit 5

Heartily agree Casawan

No Annie; people who voted brexit studied the whole situation in depth over many weeks and reached their conclusion with no 'help' from the gutter press and their despicable headlines [usually apologised for in two minute sentences on page three several days later].quote 'No one knows what the outcome of Brexit will be'...why anyone would vote for something with 'no known outcome' on the advice of politicians who, according to some 'Trouble is we can't trust any politician to tell the truth these days'is beyond me. But then, there's a helluva lot I don't understand these days I'm afraid.

The main reason lots of people voted for Brexit was unfortunately immigration. You heard it again and again particularly in areas most affected. I'm not sure that the money for the NHS swayed those many people, some perhaps, imo it was immigration and sovereignty for the average man in the street. Yes the NHS was rubbish as one knew it was, but then so was D.C. implying that WW111 with Europe would be one of the results!!! As for being duped. No people were more duped as it now turns out than we were in 1975 when we we were told very persuasively that we were voting for a Common Market! How wrong we were and how right Tony Benn was. But until now there was nothing we could do, but given the chance we could, and we did!

Trouble is we can't trust any politician to tell the truth these days. No one knows what the outcome of Brexit will be. There were some very shabby lies on both sides and undoubtedly some people were misled. I support Brexit for the reasons stated in my earlier post, but I have no urge to defend the position of the Brexit campaigners who completely failed to address my issues and concentrated on the economy (effects could only be guessed at) and immigration ( painting half the country as racist bigots in the process), shamefully assisted by the media who sensationalised the whole thing.
granjura Apply your formula to the Brexit vote, and it is still a majority vote. Maybe we should be like Aus, where voting is mandatory?

I do agree the lie on the money which would pour into the NHS was believed and some did vote on this lie

The population in UK is now 67 million, that is why the leavers vote actually represents 25% of the population and those registered to vote is 46 million therefore the leavers represent 36.9% of the eligible to vote population!

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207114071594553&set=gm.1330684346964829&type=3

who are 'The People' anyhow? Look at the graph perhaps.

Luckygirl. I think we've made it clear time and again- it was not JUST the low margin, it is before it is absolutely crystal clear that so many were swayed by massive lies - one of them being the 350m a day to NHS. You may have realised that was a lie- but 10000s didn't - and without their vote, Brexit would have next won the day. You can deny it, and deny it some more.

Any business who had sold you a 'pup' with these sort of lies would have to give you full refund and you could even sue them, under the Trades Description Act. And you KNOW that.

BTW, Blair is not requesting a re-vote- but he says 'if the kind of deal we can get for Great Britain turns out to be a disaster for the country, then people shoud be able to re-vote. A bit different, really.

Casawan great post just how I feel.