Beginning to distrust Jeremy Corbyn

This debate reminds me of 1997 when I had a heated discussion with a Labour Party member who was canvassing in my local town. I said that for the first time in my life I didn't feel I could vote labour because I thought Tony Blair was a Tory in disguise and I no longer recognised the party as a socialist party. The canvasser said it would be OK, the party were toning things down in order to appeal to the more moderate voters, but that once labour gained power the left wingers were still there and would have more influence. We disagreed, I went on my way, and I think he was proved wrong. I didn't vote for labour in that election or any subsequent election until the last one because I respected Ed Miliband (who was also ridiculed in the most personal way in the press and on this forum) but above all I wanted to help to undo the damage of successive conservative governments.

It is not worth trying to gain power at all costs. A party either has principles it believes in or it doesn't. It would be dishonest to put forward moderate policy proposals and then do something quite different once in power. It would also be a good way to lose the support of the electorate for the next time. Anyway, I think people are ready to hear new ideas, many people are sick and tired of the old ways and the self-serving politicians of all parties. I want them all to say what they mean and do what they say so we can make voting decisions based on that.

For once, I agree with rosesarered [shock horror].

I would also add that rent controls are a pipe dream without building more, especially council housing. Supply will dry up, as landlords look to invest their money elsewhere, thus increasing the shortage of property.

Significant investment in council housing will cost billions. It makes sense for the government to borrow the money while interest rates are so low, but it will take years for the compulsory purchase of land, changes to planning regulations, provision of extra school places (etc) and the actual building of the homes.

PS. I agree with petra too - I think I'd better go and lie down.

@nightowl

I would love you to be proved right.

daphnidil I think I'll join you. You haven't been on the 'juice' have you?

In regards to rents. This is a subject that makes me really really angry. A few years ago I thought, naively, this can't go on, people can't afford theses rents, people will have to find something else, landlords will have to drop their rents. How stupid I was, it's got worse.
Although here in Southend we have had two landlords receive heavy fines because of the condition of their properties.

Nightowl, you are proud you didn't vote for a government ehivh gave us

Minimum wage

Sure Start

Child tax credit

24 days paid holiday

Introduction of the Equality and Human Rights Commission

Introduced civil partnerships

Free breast screening for all women between 50 and 70

Free eye tests fir over sixties

Free nusery places for every three and four year old
f

Free entry to museums galleries

Number of apprenticeships more than doubled

New deal which helped over 1.8 million into work

Free local bus travel for over sixties

Cut long term youth unemployment by 75 per cent

Over fourteen thousand more police

Paternity leave for fathers

Abolished section 28

And many more

Rents make me mad too. I have to rent after I was forced to give up my mortgage. Meanwhile, my former husband has a multi-million pound property portfolio not a million miles from Southend, started with money from his new wife and his mother (who wouldn't give us anything as a couple, because she disliked me). From what my children tell me, he can charge more or less whatever rent he wants, because there's such a shortage of property. Fifteen years ago, his tenants were single occupiers, then only couples could afford the rents. Now, some of his properties have three or four sharers. The property is owned by an offshore company, so if the UK brings in rent controls, ex-hubby will invest somewhere else.

Labour Party has won the appeal , at least we will be spared McDonald calling people f*****g losers again

Did I say I was proud Annie? Pride didn't come into it. I just felt I had to follow my beliefs and the Labour Party did not represent my beliefs at that time.

I felt about Tony Blair the same way you feel about Jeremy Corbyn. As things stand, he was far worse than I could ever have foreseen in 1997.

Well we all have different reasons for voting , I am pleased they did so much good for many who needed it , that was my reason for voting

I have always considered my vote very carefully Annie. Actually I think I did myself a disservice there, I believe I voted labour again as soon as Gordon Brown became leader. He was a man I respected.

if they think about his policies instead, free university education, a properly funded NHS, and rent controls and affordable housing so that our children and grandchildren will have the same chances to get on in life that we had, they will realise that the contest is not about one man, but about the future of ordinary people in the UK.

Celia I am sure there are not many people in the UK who would not want some of those things - it is how to fund them that is missing from the equation and that is fundamental to the implementation of these ideals.

I don't think the country would ever be in a position to fund 50+% of its young people to have a free university education and I am not sure that that is what the country needs either. We need more good technical schools, apprenticeships and work placements to enable all young people to achieve their potential, and a degree is not always the passport to a job which some people imagine.

Jalima, would you feel differently if the country was funding 50% or more of its young people to train as doctors, nurses, teachers, plumbers, electricians another skilled work?
I agree that not everyone wants to go to university but I'd love to give those that do that opportunity without it meaning they leave owing in the region of £60,000

nightowl, if Brown had stood for leadership I would have voted for him but there was no leadership contest , I still voted labour because I truely believe even though no party can fulfill all their promises labour will do the most good for those who need it , this is why I have remained with the party all these years. There will never be a perfect party, promises are made but not all kept by all parties, so I stick with labour because I know they will do good for those who desperately need help. I don't like promises which are so obviously impossible to carry out though.

The country cannot afford free university education , no use thinking it can.

I have read all the posts and I wonder if anyone has changed their minds? I am a Corbyn supporter, and so is my husband, but we hate each others reasons for that. We have argued so much that it is now off limits. So has anyone shifted their point of view on this thread?

No, I knew he was a 'bad un' the moment I saw him elected as leader. I read up on him and knew what he was about and unfortunately I was right. Please don't think I'm gloating, I'm not.

Yes I Certaintly changed my mind,i voted and cavassed for him , wouldn't vote for him now, in fact come the next vote I will vote for Smith, I look on it as not supporting smith but a vote against Corbyn , feel totally betrayed by him and he ripping my party apart

OK.

That's not what I said at all Iam64, at least it's not what I thought I said!
Of course we need professionals with degrees and higher qualifications, but 50% is a very high proportion for the taxpayer to fund the burden. In the not so distant past SRN, HND, AMIMechE, AMIEE, City and Guilds etc were highly respected qualifications, as was a teaching certificate and certainly gave a better training for the world of work than some of the degrees offered today as many were 'sandwich' courses or qualifications were earned by day release and at evening school.
That's why I said We need more good technical schools, apprenticeships and work placements to enable all young people to achieve their potential, and a degree is not always the passport to a job which some people imagine.

I'd like to see the total figures for student finance, because the taxpayer isn't saving so much as it seems. It's estimated that about 70% of loans will never be paid back, because they're written off after 30 years. In 27 years' time, there's going to have to be a big write down of outstanding debts and it will be the same every year after that. Osborne and co will, of course, be history by then.

What's so unfair is that interest accrues from the date the loan is taken out and can't be paid back early. I was talking to somebody a few days ago whose child has been to private school and will just continue paying the fees and maintenance upfront - in fact, they'll be less than the school fees. Therefore, their child won't have the extra 'graduate tax' until his early fifties, nor will anybody who can afford not to work.

The only thing that I can see is that there is no opposition for the working class.The Conservatives are sitting back loving it, and arguments on here are doing no good at all.

We no longer have industry so we have no trade union muscle. Those of us with a low IQ worked out that voting to stay in the EU was not doing us any good. 30 years ago we could buy a home, but despite the EU minimum wage, we can't.

I will continue to vote Corbyn and if it means a Labour party without the Blairits,who never cares for us then I am all for it.

"Cared"

Last night Derek Hatton was interviews in Newsnight. Very angry by the decision of the court. He ranted on and he said he had applied to rejoin - he was thrown out years ago - the party is at last going back to where it was thirty years he claimed