As the hysterical left weep into their lattes...

I'm not wearing blinkers daphnedill, frankly I find your lack of tolerance for the views of others quite distasteful.

Thanks rosesarered

varian

"Biased information I have been fed over the years by the press"

and of course that doesn't work both ways does it?!!

If we've exhausted our blame game there's always Maggie Thatcher, she'll do.

Ana: They should, at the very minimum, monitor the opening thread. The moderators appear to have removed at least one response to this thread so he or she (or they) must have seen the unfortunate and unhelpful opening thread. That, in itself is making a statement that Gransnet is far from neutral & is not supporting a courteous an factually based debate.

Most users, I am guessing, will want good outcomes in this world. Not just good for them but good for our fellow humans.

Most are likely to understand that we live in a complex world and sometimes make decisions as best we could that we'd later, on receipt of better information would like to reverse or change.

That is what I'd like Granset moderators lead. We need a much better tone to this debate and that means looking at opening threads carefully as, if they start with personal insults (albeit dressed up in quotation or links to articles) the it is likely to lead to more.

In my view : ALL OPENING POSTS SHOULD NEVER BE PEROSNALLY INSULTING. They should be removed before spawning, for example, the exceptionally regrettable tone of this thread.

I think my maths is right here below, allowing for rounding. I'm sure someone on here will find a way to abuse me for my post! ?

Voter turnout was 70% so talking about 50% of the electorate needing to be convinced that it's right to leave is inaccurate. Working on approximate result figures of 48% IN against 52% OUT gives us: 34% of the total electorate voted IN, 36% voted OUT and 30% didn't vote. Who are the ones who didn't vote? What might the result have been if they'd got out of their chairs and voted? Postal votes and proxy votes exist for those who can't make it to the polling station. If the young blame the old for a result they don't like, could it be that the older generation value their right to vote more highly? Your vote is your opportunity to influence the outcome. 30% of possible votes were wasted. 30% more of the electorate could have voted IN or OUT. That's a lot of apathy. It's 30% of the electorate who need to be convinced of something...

Nonio, why do you regard it as wrong to provide a link to an article written by a well-known, well-respected writer, in a national newspaper which not everyone likes but which has good standing, in which she takes issue with what she sees as a certain attitude in some people towards those who voted the opposite way from them?

You don't have to answer that rhetorical question. It quite simply isn't wrong.

It's fine for you (or anyone) not to like the article. It's not fine for it to be censored.

Actually, since it's from the Times I think it may only available for a week except to people who have a subscription to the Times.

(They may not agree with you, but should explain why not, if that were the case)

Nonio, GNHQ rely on GN members reporting posts someone considers offensive to them, they don't go around monitoring threads. It's entirely up to you if you want to report the OP.

Well said Nonio!

GandTea we don't need a new party. Join the Liberal Democrats. We have an excellent leader in Tim Farron, somewhat to the left of the party but a passionate and effective campaigner, and unlike the Labour, Conservative and Green parties, we are not having a leadership contest.

A proliferation of new centre/left parties will only help UKIP and the Tory right wing. Under the FPTP system it is very difficult for smaller parties without massive funding from big business or trade unions or the backing of the down market tabloid press to get fair representation in parliament. Thousands of new members have joined in the last few days. Please join us.

cupcake1 That was nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with Margaret Thatcher.

You may have voted out and you may have friends who complain about the EU but how much of that has been because of the biased information you have been fed over the years by the press?

I have never heard anyone who voted in accuse all the leave voters of being racists, but I have heard it said that the Leave campaign encouraged racism and all the racists voted out.

Every time I here the news, I get more depressed about our children's and grandchildren's future. We set the country adrift on an unknown sea and now the government is falling apart, or at least the labour party is, and I suspect the conservatives will when they have to choose Boris.

The only positive way forward I can see is a new party that has the right people to take us forward, but there sure aren't those people in a single existing party.

I think our politicians have a lot to answer for, Boris and his cronies for the lies and the Tories and Labour for not being aggressive enough. IMO, the country was conned.

I also get annoyed about the talk of an age split in the voting, most of my aged friends voted to remain because they were considering their C & GC.

Same here, MazieD.

I don't want to say or read the sort of personal, humiliating, insulting things I've seen here today (on both sides). It really upsets me and can only increase an already large schism.

I like to deal with facts as they have a way of focussing our attention on the things we can do and change and can reduce the emotional charge of a discussion I can see why there are differences of opinions on some issues. But not on others. Not where the hard known facts suggest that honest opinion cannot support it.

There are not simply two perspectives: Leave and Remain.

There are a huge number of voices in the middle that were unsure which way to vote...and have pledged their vote far from sure whether it will be a good thing or not.

I can only imagine how they are feeling today, watching the pound and the markets and hoping against hope that things will get better soon.

Surely that is something we all hope for : that things will -factually - get better soon?

We do not help by insulting one another, denigrating who we are, whether by labelling leavers as 'rascist' or remainers as "hysterical, latte-loving lefties".

If the moderators of Gransnet do not step in soon (including with regard to the person who started this unfortunate thread with its regrettably, divisive and personal insults at its core, not saved by simply saying they were quoting someone else) then I am off.

Maybe that is what Gransnet wants? Maybe the start of this thread is shared by the Gransnet "Moderator"? Why not the starting one? I cannot work out the rules by which moderating here works.

Good post cupcake I agree completely.

I cannot believe the venom, animosity and indeed hatred on here! What ever happened to 'stiff upper lip'? I have worked for the police for 33 years and have seen the 'darker' side of mankind with racial hatred being high on the agenda of unacceptable behaviour with severe penalties for those perpetraters, and rightly so. Those of us who are not racists are being labelled something we are not just because of the way we voted. Should we all have 'gone with the flow' for the fear of being accused of racism? That certainly never entered my head when I voted out. Before the referendum everyone I knew constantly complained of the EU and its oftentimes ridiculous and pathetic regulations so why now are so many swinging the other way? Having said that most stood by their convictions otherwise the result would have turned out differently. In all this gloom and doom does no one remember 1985 when the housing market spiralled downwards as interest rates soared, I certainly do when we had to take out a loan to cover our mortgage that went up £800 a month, and hey guess what, we were in the EU then!

Oh Obie! That's very sweet. x

I don't like coffee at all, let alone latte but at a public performance on Saturday night I found myself crying at Land of Hope and Glory (because it doesn't feel that it is, any more) and yesterday at hearing Elgar's cello concerto, which for me has always been associated with patriotic feelings.

No amount of jollying along is going to change my feelings. I remember the 50s & 60s and they weren't a particularly glorious time for Britain. I don't want to go back there.

I wish I could jingl

But I have to love her, and someone else and I do

Can't believe how much nastiness about, even on here.
By the way, Boris did not expect to get the out verdict and that's why he is now like a rabbit caught in the headlights and doesn't know what to say or what to do. Even his sister voted Remain.
Well all you leavers - be careful what you wish for.

*God! What a patronising post gj!

Sock it back to 'er obie!

Well said Annam:I, too have had Facebook abuse because of my stance on remaining...from my oldest friend from schooldays. This is the first time the whole of my family have totally agreed on something.We are in bits.

I am completely devastated especially for my children and grandchildren I cannot believe the stupidity of the interviewees on TV saying things like well the government will have to give us the money we are loosing from the EU.
We are not well off but are reliant on house prices keeping stable some hope!

Yes remain constitute 50% of the electorate. They must listen to us.

There's certainly plenty of abuse about.

I was called an idiot for voting remain as in 20 years there wouldn't be many British people left. I have known this man for thirty years.

Co workers have called my daughter a bad loser - this isn't a lost bet at the bookies she is upset about, her husband is a Scot. The country (UK) our fathers and grandfathers fought for may soon not exist.

Meanwhile in the real world people I know are 'crying into their lattes' (offensive abuse)for other reasons.

One friend retires in two years, her pension pot is dependent on the stock market and she is losing retirement money every day. Another had her life savings invested in a savings product linked to UK stocks (down 11% and falling). Three other friends work bidding for and working on EU funded training and disability support projects in areas of high unemployment; one knows they have two years to find other work, one has been given notice and the other isn't sure yet when her job will end. A local farmer (Conservative voter, hardly a 'luvvie') who is dependent on EU grants and legislation (EU 'green crap') to support conservation practices says her investment in her organic farm is vulnerable.

When I posted on Facebook about my three friends one response was: 'tough, a price well worth paying and they will just have to get off their and find new jobs'.

There are lots of companies saying they are transferring work to other EU countries on the news today. I expect their families and friends are pretty upset too.

On Friday we spent £250bn or 8 years EU contributions propping up Sterling and billions more today Worried? 'that's scaremongering talk' 'calm down dear' - Whatever the long term prospects it's a very expensive short term bill for exit that certainly won't be going to support the NHS soon.

Maybe it will all come right at the end, we all hope so and will do our best but just allow people who are genuinely hurt and upset a little time to grieve and be angry please? We are nearly half my nation and in the case of Scotland most of the nation.