A new Centre party?

sable.madmimi.com/click?id=50737.136963.994.1.a6d4008372e0704219821407cc83fda7

Caroline Lucas is putting forward a bill tomorrow to support PR.
This is to ask your MP to support it, for those who are interested.

We would welcome them!!!!

theconversation.com/why-labours-gang-of-172-should-seek-an-alliance-with-the-liberal-democrats-62075

['clap clap' emoticon]

That's why Labour needs to offer something tangible.

Most voters are not politically aware, they vote for all kinds of reasons, the main one is self-interest and frequently what they consider self-interest is misguided. The number of reasons I have heard given for Brexit include; wanting the blue passports back, wanting a return to imperial measurements, because the retirement age for women has gone up five years and of course immigration.

People also vote against something they do not like. Voting labour because they didn't want a woman Prime Minister or conservative because they do not like Jeremy Corbyn.

UKIP gained votes from labour because it has campaigned to come out of Europe and reduce immigration. Beyond that voters have not thought.

It is nice to think that voters all reach their decisions after long mature and informed thought based on good knowledge and a commitment to a particular political philosophy. But they don't.

TYPO economy

Maybe because some Labour Party voters don't care that much about socialist principles, such as anti-racism and gay and women's rights. 'It's the ecomomy, stupid'. When some party promises more money in their pocket if immigrants don't take their jobs, many will believe it.

Labour Party voters look after themselves just as Conservative voters do. One of the arguments I hear is that Labour leaders in their metropolitan bubbles with champagne lifestyles can afford to have principles, but they can't.

The Marxist playwright, Bertolt Brecht, had Mother Courage say, "First comes eating, then the morality".

'ordinary voter...' As opposed to?

Well it's the same question as to why people support any extreme party. I think initially the extreme party appeal by populist policies usually based on myth, but which appeal to the ordinary punter.

I suppose the ordinary voter doesn't vote as those more politically active/aware through the prism of an ideology, but simply through ideas that "make sense" or provide answers to the problems they might experience in their daily life like low wages, unemployment, lack of housing etc.

These "answers" are as we know frequently based on myths, but these myths must in many instances be something that makes sense to the voter.

I've never understood how labour supporters could vote for UKIP, unless it's like a world map and you never really notice the bit where Russia nearly meets America.

Presumably that's the right of Labour and left of Tory. Be another SDP?

What is wanted is a coalition of the left. So Libs, Greens, and Labour left. Blimey it is all up in the air isn't it?

I can see trouble brewing if May gets in. She's going to find it hard going with the right of her party. Perhaps they'll join up within UKIP. If Banks has his way I guess that might happen

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/labour-tory-mps-talk

Do you have a link? I can't find it.

It's a bit worrying that there is talk of a centrist pro-EU party of Labour and Tory in the Guardian today.
That's not what I want at all.

Having watched him at the Compass meeting, I was impressed - and he's a Corbyn supporter! I thought what he said made sense.

I Googled him, because I hadn't heard of him and he has an impressive CV (assuming it's not of the Andrea Leadsom variety).

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/07/09/what-is-the-left-for/

Richard Murphy likes Clive Lewis.

PS. I support PR too, even if it does mean we have 80 Ukip MPs. At the moment, I doubt if Ukip has 80 people capable of being MPs anyway. At least they'd be out in the open and couldn't complain about distant elites. They'd be part of the elite and would be held accountable rather than just whinging.

Have you watched Alexander Bett's talk on TED TALKS?

He discusses the post-BREXIT future for the UK. The first thing he says is needed is civic education - not just the crummy courses on citizenship in schools (although schools play a part) but part of everyday life.

The UK could usefully look at what Germany did after WW2 as part of its denazification programme, when it had to undo 12 years of brainwashing. When I first went to Germany in 1970, I was amazed how much people knew about political processes and realised that I knew very little about the processes in my own country. Germany set up a programme which affected every aspect of civic life, as the Nazis had done before them.

I suspect that the British don't care that much, because we haven't had the kind of political upheavals within living memory which mainland Europe has experienced. We've bumbled along. People moan about taxes or prices,etc which might or might not inform their voting choice, but their votes don't count for much anyway, so they don't think much about politics.

I'm quite amazed how little people seem to know about how the EU operates. The information is there for anybody who has ever looked for it.

I support PR. I know it has its drawbacks but I think it would increase voter participation and break the impasse that we currently have of no party being brave enough to unequivocally put forward policies that increase opportunities for ordinary people and reduce inequality.

There are several types of PR and when we had a vote on the issue most people (including myself) were not convinced by the system being put forward at the time but they might have considered a different system. I think the issue of PR - and the various methods - is something that should be discussed much more in the media because I think it is a system that might become increasingly attractive to voters.

There is no point asking people to vote on something that they have very little information and knowledge about. I think that happened with the EU referendum - not many people knew enough about the various issues to make a fully informed choice and, in a sense, had to take a "leap of faith" that they were making the right decision (and, as a Remainer, I include myself in that).

I agree with you about PR. If you listen to Clive Lewis, who is now on Labour's front bench, in Compass talk, he's in favour of it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeJQPR0YwnE

I also agree with about the term 'far left' and have asked people to explain the differences in policy to me, but nobody's taken up the challenge.

I am not at all interested in squabbling between factions or names for various political stances. What I want (and I believe many people share my opinion) is an alternative to 'austerity', which is only austerity for the poorest (a proper austerity policy would tax the richest too), a safety net for everybody and opportunities for people to live beyond a hand to mouth existence. Labour and Momentum don't seem to have any policies for achieving their aims easily accessible to the public.

What we need is a proper proportional voting system, STV, as works for the MEPs. Then and only then will a SDLP make sense. And it is about time they stopped calling Corbyn 'far left'. He is only left of the New Labour faction, which is not Left at all.

It must be the answer for people who want a government which is anything other than Conservative. Labour can't win an absolute majority without winning back some of the Scottish seats. Boundary changes will work against them.

Left of centre parties have enough common ground to make things work.

I think that for the vast majority of people this must be the answer. How soon this alliance can come about is the next question.

This is long, but interesting and inspiring. Caroline Lucas is the first proper speaker.

Compass - Post-Brexit Alliance Building

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMHuysv5a4E

He wasn't suspended but was humiliated and is now ignored by most unless he asks a direct question relating to Wales and Welsh politics

He should have been warned - English men put their wives on a pedestal, Welsh men put their wives on their flag