The Tipping Point

I am a retired teacher, my OH a headteacher, 2 of my children are teachers, so I know a lot of teachers. Several excellent young teachers we know have quit teaching in the last year, and many more have gone to work in the independent sector. Conditions of service in state schools have deteriorated, and with the academisation programme, teachers pay and conditions are no longer national and down to individual schools, who've had massive budget cuts. No wonder morale is at rock bottom.

Gracesgran, I belong to a number of teachers' sites and I can confirm that teachers are leaving if they can. Few teachers now survive more than five years before looking elsewhere. Many of those who continue look for management roles to get out of the classroom.

It always bemuses me that people think teachers and doctors should leave if they don't like their conditions of service. Where are their replacements to be found? Young, inexperienced teachers arrive bright eyed and bushy tailed and within a year or two, they want to leave.

Do tell your friend that over 800 GP practices could close next year, Gracesgran.

Over 1500 patients left without a GP in Leicester after two practices closed.
I am sure you will not be believed, but who knows which ones will be next?

Can you imagine what would happen if all the junior doctors left? Your friend has no idea. Probably doesn't like immigrant doctors working in the NHS either.

I was pessimistic until I heard about the doctors taking him to court and Hunt's lawyers changing the wording, even though he has not taken any notice of them.

www.justiceforhealth.co.uk/

This is the website for the doctors taking him to court.
It's getting a bit like "My lawyer's better than yours, and I've got more money than you!"
Hunt will be using taxpayers money, of course, not his own.

Sometimes you wonder which century we are in Annie

I know I am sounding very pessimistic Jen but I wonder if the rot can be stopped. We may be able to stop the Hunt Diktat but the drift away could be unstoppable.

With the underhand ways that this government has tried to get changes through Parliament (I never thought I would be grateful to the Lords) if I was a doctor (or teacher) I would not feel out of the woods and could well be looking for a job abroad, etc.

One of my less politically aware friends said the other day that if teachers and doctors don't like there conditions of work they should leave. It really worries me that people don't realise they are.

I am hoping that the junior doctors going to court today will stop the rot of the NHS failing. I am hoping that Hunt has been stopped.

There is a copy of the letter sent to Hunt on here.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/06/junior-doctors-legally-challenge-jeremy-hunt-misconceived-contract
24 pages of detailed reading.

I am quite shocked by the 'why didn't he put his foot down '

Niggly I asked why your reply was to the original point?

... "and answer came there none"

I didn't expect to see 'why didn't he put his foot down' when speaking of a marriage on this forum

Hang in niggly, if you knew the marriage broke up because of different views on schooling and you say Corbyn wanted to send his son to a failing school, why did you say but apparently JC too when you were condeming Diane Abbot?

So you like masterful men nigglynellie? You think the father should have more say over their childrens education than the mother. You condem Diane Abbot for choosing not to send her son to the local comp yet condem Corbyn for choosing the local comp. double standards niggly, yours not theirs

Yes. I knew that, but why didn't he put his foot down? One of them had to. I think the local comp was failing, so you can't blame her for not wanting her son to go there, but for someone on the far left it didn't look good, one rule for an MP, another for the plebs who had no other choice! But it's a bit par for the course on all sides of the House of Commons, so no real surprise!

Niggly you are just setting up a straw man argument as so often happens on these threads. You throw out something you know people will not agree with in order to distract from the original discussion. This is about how the Conservative government - with a debatable mandate of just over a quarter of potential voters are driving both the NHS and education into the ground in order to privatise them. What is your view of that?

Sorry niggly, just realised you said JC too.

Did you know his marriage broke up because his wife wanted their son to attend a grammar school but Corbyn didn't agree and wanted his son to attend the local comp ?

Who is JC top?

So if he chooses something different for his children does that necessarily mean he isn't committed to a decent public education system and if someone has private health care that they don't believe in a proper NHS. Of course not. However if you cut bursaries for nurses, restrict them coming in from other countries, threaten junior doctors and drive them from the country, introduce expensive top-down reforms which don't work and flog schools off to the highest bidder you are blatantly destroying the NHS and the education system. Throwing mud at someone else doesn't stop the tiger that is just about to pounce and tear you to pieces. It is wicked Tories who are doing these things.

No, just pointing out that it isn't only wicked Tory's who plumb fo private education for their children, private health care or who guard their tax liabilities to preserve family money. Sorry if this offends, but you know it's true, not just D.A but apparently JC top. I find this quite appalling! What was wrong with the local Comp for his children? Perhaps the education didn't come up to scratch no excuse at all for somebody so principled.

I agree with you gracesgran and with the posters above, with the exception of the one poster who drags in Diane Abbott as though that individual's behaviour somehow mitigates or justifies the way this government is destroying our public services.

The government has a mandate of 12 (please correct me if I have that wrong). If that is the case, how come they can destroy at will. Where is the voice of the opposition parties. Is it possible the government could begin to lose votes in parliament or is that too much to hope for.

Labour MP's do that as well. Pay for private health care, guard their wealth after death and most hypocritical of all educate their children privately! Stand up Diane Abbott!!

I agree with all the above. What I just cannot understand is why ordinary working people vote Conservative. The Conservatives pretend to care for children, the sick, the mentally ill, those who can't get or hold down a job for whatever reason, but it is all pretence. They only respect the rich, who they kowtow to in order to ensure donations to their party. In unguarded moments they refer to ordinary people as "oicks"; there is a deep seated attitude of contempt for the working class which is only too evident. They guard their privilege and ensure their offspring stay on top by educating them privately and getting them in to the best universities, however thick they are. The sooner we see the back of this lot the better.

None so blind than those who do not wish to seen

And there are some who can afford private health care and pay school fees so no worries for them

Eloethan I agree - either I am paranoid or people just cannot see what is happening under their noses.

I agree Gracesgran - it is frightening what is happening to our country. It is even more frightening that some people are still defending the selling off of almost every public service/asset.

Is it more important what the Lib Dems did or does it matter what is happening now? The Conservatives have been in power for six years; David Cameron has been Prime Minister for all that time and look what they are doing to our most esteemed institutions. The Conservatives are the driving force of this. If it was a business we would call it asset striping as they are striping out the main assets - the dedicated people in both the NHS and education.

Well it might have helped if Nick Clegg hadn't been such a drip - they don't seem to be making much of a comeback either.

I hope the voters who supported the Libdems in 2010 and switched to the Tories in 2015 now realise their mistake.