The Tipping Point

I am hoping that the junior doctors going to court today will stop the rot of the NHS failing. I am hoping that Hunt has been stopped.

There is a copy of the letter sent to Hunt on here.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/06/junior-doctors-legally-challenge-jeremy-hunt-misconceived-contract
24 pages of detailed reading.

Sometimes you wonder which century we are in Annie

I know I am sounding very pessimistic Jen but I wonder if the rot can be stopped. We may be able to stop the Hunt Diktat but the drift away could be unstoppable.

With the underhand ways that this government has tried to get changes through Parliament (I never thought I would be grateful to the Lords) if I was a doctor (or teacher) I would not feel out of the woods and could well be looking for a job abroad, etc.

One of my less politically aware friends said the other day that if teachers and doctors don't like there conditions of work they should leave. It really worries me that people don't realise they are.

Do tell your friend that over 800 GP practices could close next year, Gracesgran.

Over 1500 patients left without a GP in Leicester after two practices closed.
I am sure you will not be believed, but who knows which ones will be next?

Can you imagine what would happen if all the junior doctors left? Your friend has no idea. Probably doesn't like immigrant doctors working in the NHS either.

I was pessimistic until I heard about the doctors taking him to court and Hunt's lawyers changing the wording, even though he has not taken any notice of them.

www.justiceforhealth.co.uk/

This is the website for the doctors taking him to court.
It's getting a bit like "My lawyer's better than yours, and I've got more money than you!"
Hunt will be using taxpayers money, of course, not his own.

Gracesgran, I belong to a number of teachers' sites and I can confirm that teachers are leaving if they can. Few teachers now survive more than five years before looking elsewhere. Many of those who continue look for management roles to get out of the classroom.

It always bemuses me that people think teachers and doctors should leave if they don't like their conditions of service. Where are their replacements to be found? Young, inexperienced teachers arrive bright eyed and bushy tailed and within a year or two, they want to leave.

I am a retired teacher, my OH a headteacher, 2 of my children are teachers, so I know a lot of teachers. Several excellent young teachers we know have quit teaching in the last year, and many more have gone to work in the independent sector. Conditions of service in state schools have deteriorated, and with the academisation programme, teachers pay and conditions are no longer national and down to individual schools, who've had massive budget cuts. No wonder morale is at rock bottom.

We could add the housing policy as well to the tipping point.

Annie I am saddened by your attack on Niggly - this is not the way that a reasoned political debate should be.

Some teachers are not in the position where they are simply able to leave their current position. Yes, jobs are easy to find in the profession with falling numbers of teachers and rising numbers of pupils, but as virtually all schools are under the same pressures and régimes there is little to be gained by moving to a different school. A complete change of career is very difficult. when you have a family, a mortgage and such commitments.

But, yes, the teaching profession is about to implode and our education system with it.

My DD1 quit teaching 20 years ago. The rot has been long and insidious. New Labour, I believe, should carry much of the blame as we lost the balance in government. There ceased to be any strong opposition, just three varying degrees of right wing parties. I am not, and never have been a socialist, but we need both right and left wing parties to maintain our sort of government. I just hope Mr Corbyn is stronger than he seems.

Anya, I am sorry you are sadden, but I did not attack niggly, I am surprised that you are upset considering niggly's two posts, the first claiming Corbyn had chosen not to send his children to state schools , the second saying he should have put his foot down when his wife chose a grammar school . Niggly didn't even have the honesty to say she was mistaken with her claims , as for her views on male dominance in the home , I do not share them , it shocked me to read it and I am sadden that on a forum where members speak out against male dominance in some Muslim homes you support a poster who advocates male dominance in a marriage

ab you, as always completely misunderstand the point I'm making which is that certain politicians are vociferous in their condemnation of the private sector and yet, when it suits, use it themselves and justify it! Hypocritical or what!! I have never said that I liked or approved of domineering men, equally I don't like wimps!!
I noticed that you were very quiet on the thread about the dominance of Muslim men over their women, so matter how many times your opinion was asked you were strangely silent!
As for the NHS and the education systems. Apart from increased taxation, how are these two seemingly bottomless pits to be financed. Genuine answers please.
Lastly, provided that I don't break any house rules gracesgran, I can post what I like without reference to you, or anyone else come to that, as can anyone who chooses to comment on this thread.

Niggly, one small fact, Corbyn did not choose the private sector for his children's schooling yet you claimed he did , then declared he should have put his foot down when his wife chose a grammer school and he a comprehensive , I accept you enjoy disagreements so will not continue with this . You spoke out supporting make dominance , your choice.

Make dominance?!! You know I didn't ab, but we'll agree to differ. What's your opinion about the Muslim ladies though? Just out of interest!!

I'm surprised by the putting the foot down comment too. My DH and I have different views on selective education. Our DC had the choice of going to a local grammar or a local comprehensive, and the choice was made via discussion and compromise, but mainly by listening to what they wanted. The type of relationship where someone decides on behalf of the rest of the family without taking their views into consideration should be long gone.

nigglynellie are you still trying to derail the subject of this debate? We could cover the cost of the NHS and the education sector if we closed the tax loopholes and made sure the rich paid proper contributions rather than constantly adjusting things in their favour. But you seem to have fallen for the conservative line of 'we can't afford it'.

I've ignored the JC should have put his foot down line-it was a joke wasn't it?

NfkDumpling interesting thought that the issues with education go back to New Labour and the blurring of the different approaches. Certainly there have been issues for years but I am not sure if it is for that reason or rather only that reason. I think government after government has interfered in both education and health in a way which is not their remit.

State education and the NHS are crumbling , fact

Don't worry niggly it's just the usual suspects way of trying to wriggle out of the fact that Corbyn didn't send his children to the local comp.Labour, Lib Dem and Conservative MP's ALL do what is right for themselves and think the general public can go hang.
If you have strong principles on education, and you are an MP then it makes you a hypocrite not to stick with them ( and later blame your wife!)

State education and the NHS are NOT crumbling, what a doom laden thread this is, wallowing in misery.
A ton of money has been put into education over the last 20 years, ditto the NHS.
Numbers using these facilities has risen( nothing we can control now.) However, there have been complaints about the NHS for years, and there are always good schools and poor schools, always have been, but doesn't mean these things are crumbling.

The right wingers are determined to reflect from the topic , again

I would almost ( but not quite) like to see Corbyn and friends get in at the next GE just to see what some people have to say as the country falls apart in a spectacular manner.Will Saint Jeremy save us? A big fat NO.

Perhaps because the left wingers need a wake up call.

Thank you trisher for your answer, why is asking that question derailing the debate, surely it's a valid query, not hostile in any way, or is questioning the oppositions methods for resolving financial problems taboo now? Fair enough! It's no more than I expected!

Wonderful cop out, blaming the wife!!!!

At least get the facts right niggly ,