How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Myths and legends Ana the stuff of sagas told over the campfire
I have a vision of 1,000 years in the future, our descendants around the virtual campfire telling tales of how things used to be when the world was full of savages in the 21st century .....

I don't know the answer to your question. The fact is that MEPs earn as much as MPs and have more generous expenses. They also have a very generous pension scheme. Some of them work hard by listening to their constituents and representing them in the European Parliament. One of mine does, even though I don't always agree with her. It's also fair to claim that some of them do sod all.

Errmmm...what are the myths?

I'd rather have two Labour and a UKIP than 3 UKIP and a Tory, daphne.
Like you, I could never see any point in anyone voting for someone whose raison d'etre is not doing his /her job.
I suppose whoever voted for a UKIP MEP cannot complain that they are not doing their job, although they will resent paying for it.

Ana

It's called the Commissioners Oath , Judges and Commissioners but not MEP's.

The link sets it out in entirety but the basic principle behind means they
Solemnly undertake to respect the Treaties and the Charter of the Fundamental Rights of the European Union . The Oath finishes " I further undertake to respect, both DURING and ' AFTER ' my term of office , the obligation arising therfrom etc.

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-10-487_en.htm

There has been many points raised as to the Oath and what it means with regard to how an EU Judge or Commissioner can be impartial. Example A United Kingdom Commissioner swears an Oath to the EU but they will have sworn an Oath of Allegiance to the Crown

www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/swearingin/

The conflict of interest raises it's head usually when pensions are spoken of and appointments such as Cathy Ashton, Lord Hill, Neil Kinnock, Mandelson et al. The two Oaths are odds with one another.

Not sure this helps really.

theconversation.com/fact-check-special-government-leaflet-that-makes-case-for-britain-staying-in-the-eu-57691

Leader of Welsh UKIP accused of driving from N Wales to EU to maximise expenses. Previous job running a family business that employed, sorry, exploited, immigrant labour.
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/ukips-mep-wales-nathan-gill-7990085
www.hulldailymail.co.uk/UKIP-MEP-Nathan-Gill-treated-migrant-workers/story-21198698-detail/story.html

Corbyn "hard left" - you must be joking - or never met anyone who was hard left if you believe that. I have a relative who has been hard left all her life and I suspect she would be voting to leave on the basis that it is a conspiracy of capitalists. There would be no particular interest in things like employment rights or women's rights from the hard left - it's all about the revolution that will bring down world capitalism if you are far left.
Believing that having some essential services in public ownership does not make you hard left, nor far left.

Getting back to my course on EU.

Looking at post war Europe.
The USA was keen under Bretton Woods for Europe to adopt the economic of free trade, which of course we now know doesn't work.
However the nation's of Europe felt that along with an economic model there was needed some form of social contract with its populations in order to mitigate both the effects of the war and conseauences of the economic model of free trade. In effect it civilised the post war model of the New order.
This is why along with the economic model we have the various social contracts like human rights.
Europe specifically rejected the US model.
It seems to me that this is the very argument that we are having in the UK today.on one side they are willing to accept the economic model of free trade in the form of the single market but reject the balancing of the social contract. On the other side it is understood that the working population is entitled to protection and social welfare, which sits alongside the economic model

I heard a comment on BBC R2 this morning made by George Osborne that says if we leave the EU, house prices will fall. I am still trying to work out if that is a threat, or a promise.

Did anyone notice the Cameron/Ashdown/Kinnock phone-in supporting EU membership. Two of the aforenamed have jobs in the EU, and the other is probably hopeful there will be a suitable vacancy when no longer PM. EU = Jobs for the Boys, then?

Hard to tell which side he's on with that one, CelticRose.

All those owning a house will want prices to rise, but there's a lot wanting to get on the housing ladder who would welcome that.

And we are going to lose £4300 per household if we vote out. He'll find that hard to justify.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/04/18/arguing-about-4300-entirely-misses-the-point-in-the-referndum-campaign/

He gave quite a lot more info than that fact. - the last time house prices dropped substantially many families were stuck with negative equity for years and it ruined some people's hopes of ever having their own home !
The French and German economic people also gave interviews over the weekend and from what they said we will be in more than a bit of an economic pickle if we do leave the EU - negotiating agreements will be far from easy as they will all be so annoyed at the action. Boris and his cronies will have a lot to answer for!

Hi D-Jen. Hope all well. I am going to search for the link where GO on behalf of the Gov wants house prices to be kept under control. Fanny May and Freddie Mac (ie, the de-regulated banks) were the cause of neg equity some 8 years ago. Because of the trillions of debt that the UK owes, apparently it will take 400 years to recover. Will try and find that link also. But, as I see it, whichever way the vote goes, we will not be any better off either way.

And there you have it Welshwife... the French and Germans telling us how this country will be in a pickle. I think that no-one really knows what will happen at Brexit.

Sorry, welshwife, I do not understand.
Negative equity in itself is not a problem for most people. It only becomes a problem if you want to move and sell your house.
The big problem at the moment is high prices so that young people are forced to pay high rents and can never save to buy a house.
Surely the best thing is for prices to drop in that case. The government is coming up with all sorts of schemes to give taxpayers money to those who want to buy.
They would never advocate low house prices in the first place, as that would lose them and their mates money.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516501/Rights_and_obligations_of_European_Union_membership_web_version.pdf

98 pages, a report that the government has to give us on EU membership.

Read this first, then see how it tallies with the newspaper headlines.

I realise that house prices going up or down only matter if you want/need to move DJ but lots of people do need to do just that. It is ridiculous they way prices have escalated in many areas but a downward trend should perhaps be a gentle one.

The German and French ministers Celtic we're talking about how their govts would view any deal the UK would want to make with the EU. Macron - the French minister referred to the EU as being a club and if you choose to leave why should you still expect the same sort of preferential treatment you have enjoyed. He mentioned the agreements with Norway and Switzerlnd and the fact they still pay into the EU budget but also said there was no guarantee that the UK would nothing like the same sort of deal as times have changed.

I see the Boris group have said Osborne's speech and figures are scaremongering but a BBc reporter said on the lunchtime news words to the effect that it would be strange if the Brexiters had not commissioned a similar report but they have published nothing. Another pundit said that several offices have also done reports and they all have similar predictions of the likely outcome of a Brexit after a few years.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Osborne predicted for 15 years, which was rather silly.
His figures have never held up for a year before. The OBR changes the figures every time it brings out a report. So Osborne is scaremongering - or he could be right. It's just a game.

fullfact.org/blog/2016/apr/five-questions-about-treasury-model/

Fullfact on it.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/04/18/arguing-about-4300-entirely-misses-the-point-in-the-referndum-campaign/

I've put this on again because the comments on it are multiplying and make veryinteresting reading.

I wonder if Osborne really wants out but dare not say so, so he is making more and more extreme statements.

fullfact.org/europe/4300-question-would-leaving-eu-really-make-every-household-worse/

Cartoon -Steve Bell

- Osborne says "Brexit will destroy public services and leave the UK permanently poorer"
He then replies to himself. "Surely that is my job"!

So vote remain Osborne will get us
Vote leave the rest of the world will get us.

Whatever the vote rest assured the wealthy will hardly notice.

The right way!

Anyone know what's happened to Chrissye07? Ever since she said she'd do the EU course she's disappeared.

I was looking forward to her thoughts on the subject.