Shirley Williams

I know this thread isn't supposed to be about schools, but just wanted to add that when Godolphin and Latymer became a fee-paying school in the mid-1970s, Shirley Williams moved her daughter to Camden High School for Girls, which was a comprehensive.

Shirley Williams must be one of the most admired politicians of our times. She has also been
tremendously hard working and enthususiastic as we found when canvassing with her for the LibDems. People who met her were truly impressed by her rationality and sincerity.

She is genuine - such a huge contrast to the untrustworthy PR-driven scoundrels who have been elected and done such harm to our country - Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair and now the ghastly Nicola Sturgeon.

At 85 Shirley deserves to ease off and we should all, whether we agree with her or not, wish her a long and happy retirement.

Riverwalk although Holland Park school may look close to Godolphin and Latymer on a map, it might not have been easy to get to, across London. Those were the days when many of us travelled to school on our own.

I was educated in the same area, at roughly the same time and as I said earlier, you passed the 11+ and then hopefully got into one of the local grammar schools. There was a choice of several, all single gender, of course.

Holland Park was opened in 1958, all very new and an unknown quantity. I doubt if any of my friend's parents would have considered it. Even those who lived in Holland Park Ave.

X

I think to be a Public School, a school had to belong to the Headmaster's Conference, now the Headmasters & Headmistresses Conference. The remaining private schools were just that - private schools. The term 'public school' went out of use about 20 years ago, they all just describe themselves as independent schools these days.

I have tremendous respect for Shirley Williams. Political life is loosing a humane and honest politician - and there are few enough of them about today.

I was thinking exactly the same Riverwalk about the different attitudes towards Shirley Williams and Diane Abbott.

I agreed with the campaign to abolish grammar schools and, since it was SW who was instrumental in bringing this about, I think she should have practised what she preached. Though I didn't agree with Diane Abbott's decision to privately educate her son, I think those who say that a person's own principles should not dictate the decisions they make in relation to their own family shouldn't really complain about her choice either.

Shirley Williams comes across as very pleasant and sensible but I don't trust her judgment. She was instrumental in persuading the House of Lords to pass the Health & Social Care Bill, allaying fears that the bill made it easier for the NHS to be privatised. Many people believe that she got that wrong.

I agree its daft to let an argument about the extremely confused terminology regarding schools derail what is generally a thread in praise of Shirley Williams. She just seemed to have an integrity and intelligence that we need right now. I hope she has a well deserved retirement.

Diane Abbot has had a lot of flak on GN for not sending her child to the local comprehensive.

I don't dislike Shirley Williams - I've met her. I'm wondering why the difference in attitude to her choice when compared to Diane Abbot.

Godolphin & Latymer and Holland Park schools are about 1.5 miles apart so if she'd really been a believer in comprehensive education Williams had a local choice.

Williams was very influential in educational matters and an active campaigner to abolish grammar schools!

I do not wish to extend the tangent of the school debate, but just to add: if you passed your 11+ in those days and in that area of London, the VA grammar school ( of which there were several) or Direct Grant entry to a fee paying school, were the usual routes to take.

x

I was educated at a Grammar school in Glasgow it was and still is one of Scotland's top fee paying schools....

I agree Alea.

Regarding the schooling of politicians children, can I assume those who think giving one's child the best available schooling whilst at the same time trying to better schooling for all is hypocritical then these same critics would if working to help the hungry would not feed their own children?

What a shame that an opportunity to give our view of Sirley Williams's career should be reduced to that tired argument about state v fee paying schools, especially in fact out of context.
Did you not spot J52's post?

Shirley William's daughter attended Godolphin and Latymer girls Voluntry Aided grammar school, in Hammersmith. It was not fee paying, but girls had to pass the 11+ and an entrance exam

Shirley Williams was fiercely brainy and I do not find it at all odd that she sent her daughter to a good grammar school.
Tony Benn did send his children to Holland Park Comprehensive (a very middle class comp ) at secondary level, but Hilary at least, went to Westminster School Prep.

Does it diminish anybody as a politician?
I don't think so.

Ok Riverwalk. Which posh school did they go to? Eton? Harrow? Roedean?

Sorry to be picky, Jane10, but it's not just "some school in Glasgow" that had "XX PUBLIC SCHOOL" carved on; it was a common thing and not just in Glasgow, although some of them have since, in the way of these things, been replaced by modern buildings. When schools became comprehensive, many in Scotland but not, I understand, in England, kept their names and so we have High Schools, Academies and Grammar Schools which are all likely to be comprehensives.

Yes, Eton and Harrow and similar were called public schools originally because they were for the sons of poor clergy who couldn't afford private tutors.

I was using the American terminology because I think it's less confusing. Well... I used to think so before it hit Gransnet . I should, of course, have made that clear. Grovel, grovel.

wheniwas is quite right that Scottish schools can be confusing though. I grew up in England but went to uni in Scotland. When I told my parents that my boyfriend had been to xxx Acadamy, my dad assumed this was not a state (public in the American sense) but he was wrong. State secondary schools are often called academies in Scotland and private schools are often called simply High School. Blether, blether.

Oh an amazing woman. She is sharply intelligent, with a good sense of humour and as Kitty L says she talks sense.

In the 19C state public education was a new thing, so schoold proudly displayed the name.

Well before that time, the establishments which now provide the "public school boys" who make up most of the cabinet, and which educate the scions of the aristocracy and the "county" were mostly founded originally by philanthropic benefactors who intended them to educate the general public. The founders would probably be horrified at the amount of privilege that they now represent.

But Eton, Harrow etc are all referred to as public schools. Lesser fee paying ones are private schools and non fee paying ones are state schools. That's not just a Scottish understanding. It may be that some school in Glasgow had 'public' school carved into it in the 19th century but that's a local understanding not the current one.

Maybe some of the confusion is because thatbags is based in Scotland (sorry, thatbags, I know you're perfectly capable of speaking for yourself, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn) and in this country a public school is run by the council and a fee-paying school, day or boarding, is a private school. Some of my DGCs go to schools in the east end of Glasgow where "XX PUBLIC SCHOOL" is carved into the stone of the building, and while they are good schools, they could not be confused with Eton.

I agree with those who have been praising Shirley Williams; a great politician, if that's not an oxymoron

Shirley William's daughter attended Godolphin and Latymer girls Voluntry Aided grammar school, in Hammersmith. It was not fee paying, but girls had to pass the 11+ and an entrance exam, in order to attend. As some of my friends did.

The School only became an independent fee paying school in the 70s,
when such schools could make the choice.

X

I was thinking of posting to ask whether Riverwalk meant a private public school or a public public school. To me a public school is one of the famous expensive private boarding schools, and the schools that everyone goes to who doesn't pay fees are local authority or state schools.

Although of course Riverwalk could have meant exactly that.

Yes, I was confused by the term as used in those posts - a public school is a private fee-paying secondary school.

That term 'public school' is soooo misleading, and I believe used in the 'opposite sense' by Riverwalk and bags. Public Schools are the least 'public' of all in the UK (as compared to State Schools).

hear hear bags- our went to excellent comprehensives- had none been available, we would have not put our principles before our children- but continued to fight for a better system for all.