Tory welfare cuts will impoverish 200,000 children next year and more than 600,00 in 2020

I wouldn't know, I wasn't smoking when I was 13 roses (and I must say I'm quite shocked that you apparently were!)

I know, it is a bit shocking, aged 13, but if I hadn't spent my pocket money on Capstan Full Strength, where would I have done all my maths jottings?

see, back then everyone was doing it....Djens Dad used to open the fag packet up in order to write more things down.It was a simpler world.

My dad smoked a pipe - the St Bruno tins were very useful for keeping things in but you couldn't write on them.
Pins, buttons, seeds etc

(No, he wasn't Harold Wilson but nearly )

See Gideon is refusing to back down over tax credits. Lords might defeat them though.

Apparently the general opinion is that Gideon intends for there to be further cuts in autumn statement.
Wonder who is going to lose out next time. More tax credit cuts? Pension benefit cuts? Unemployment benefit?
We haven't long to find out

The daily mail on line has a piece this morning about the huge amounts saved because people aren't applying for benefits to which they are entitled. Apologies for my inability to do a link, maybe someone else can?

Oh I have just heard that disabled benefits are being eyed up for possible cuts, oh good!

Look at this. Another trap for the low paid.

speye.wordpress.com/2015/10/20/pay-more-to-stay-230-pw-rent-increase/

Can't find the DM one, Iam, but here's one from Joe Hales.

speye.wordpress.com/2015/06/25/66-million-per-day-24-billion-per-yearin-welfare-goes-unclaimed/

According to Ageuk, it's £5.5 billion a year for the elderly.

Your search facility can't be very good, durhamjen

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3279222/How-13BILLION-benefits-not-claimed-year-including-half-people-dole.html

Thanks Ana , that's a lot of money isn't it and it's good to see it publicised. I've previously acknowledged that in work I did see a small amount of benefit exploitation (yes, some fraud as well) but most folk I come across in work or private life really struggle if they're long term unemployed. I also know many people who don't claim benefits to which they are definitely entitled, particularly PIP/former Disabled Living Allowance, because they just can't face the processes/humiliation involved.

Yes, I agree that the process involved in claiming some benefits such as the ones you mention can and does deter some people from claiming what they're entitled to, Iam64.

That aspect should definitely be addressed - could an impartial third party make the claim on their behalf (obviously there'd have to be medical/physical evidence as well in support).

To those who think there are families on benefit working the system, I think you may be correct BUT I would far rather fund a few who are taking advantage of the system, and have decent levels of benefits for all, than cut benefit spending, and see families living in more poverty. I don't understand those who keep harping on about how they survived on low incomes. One would think such experiences would make them want better for today's children.

I think the point some of us were making (not all) was that it can be done, and was done, with very little complaint or expectation that the taxpayer would automatically bail us out.

My search facility finds far more than most people's, though, Ana.

Here's another fullfact about the living wage.

fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/six_million_jobs_below_living_wage-48825

The Mirror said 6 million earn below the living wage, but fullfact asked and found out it was ONLY 5.4 million+.

Anna is correct, when there is no alternative, you simply have to manage.None of us stated that it is desirable for people to have less, who would want that,but that if you are going through a difficult patch, or your tax credits are reduced to your detriment, then you have to be as careful as possible with money, make cutbacks.

I thought you were sent most of your links by email, durhamjen, which you then transfer directly onto here...

There is an alternative though

Yes, you do your own research and not rely on the organisations you've signed up to to feed you information!

roseaarered "when there is no alternative" There is an alternative have a more equal society where the richest pay their share and the poorest are supported. Just because you refuse to recognise this doesn't mean it doesn't exist- there's none so blind as those who will not see. Bankers get huge bonuses, the poor get their benefits cut-if there is a difficult patch you can deal with things differently

Ana, why can you never discuss the topic? Why does it matter how or where I get my information? Why do you have to attack me for that?

If Osborne does not change his mind on this at all, there are 71 Tory MPs who could lose their seats at the next election just because of this
Although that would be nice, I'd still rather he changed his mind now instead of punishing all those families over the next four years.
He didn't want the minimum wage, but has now realised it's a good idea.
He did not want the living wage, but now realises it's a good concept, even if he is lying about it.
I wonder how long it will take to wear him down about the tax credits.

It wasn't an 'attack' it was an observation. Why do you have to exaggerate?

And I have discussed several aspects of the topic, just like many others on this thread.

trisher I am talking about how things actually are at this moment in time
Not at the next election.Therefore, if the Lords pass the tax credits policy, then there is no alternative.
Saying as you do, yes, the alternative is a fairer society etc, is no kind of practical answer.
I have come to realise that any answer which doesn't agree with the Corbynites on the threads is called (melodramatically) an 'attack'.