And so it begins.

Trisha
" I don't care how we admit people but we must do so. The poorest countries in the world are dealing with this crisis and the richest ones (with the exception of Germany) are sitting and watching".

I think you will find this assertion to be a little 'off mark' the media fails to mention much of the aid given by other countries both in the west and Middle East as they want to maintain the good guy, bad guy status.

Ideally refugees should go to countries based on current population per sq metre of land I.e. UK has an approx population of 68million, Finland has a population of 5 million, it would seem more sensible for a larger proportion of refugees to be taken in by countries like Finland who have have a much smaller current population per sq.mtr. of land than UK. The UK will not be able to sustain its own current population if war was to break out in this region. We cannot say it never will ever happen again.

I don't think that some people have a clue about 'evil', or they wouldn't bandy that saying around.Way OTT is right!

Saying that there are evil bastards in the world is one thing, and undoubtedly true.

Saying that some of them are in our government is completely different, as well you know, durhamjen.

Terribull, are you saying this government is not extreme?

How many homeless?
How many using food banks?
How many being socially cleansed?
How many children living in poverty?

When I said evil bastards I was just quoting this;

"And again, Nellie. Do some of you find it hard to accept that there are evil bastards in this world and no amount of "let's talk about this" is going to change them. There's only one thing they understand, and the sooner the powers that be put it into practice the sooner lives will be saved."

Some of us just think that the evil bastards are the ones doing the bombing, which includes Cameron, and making poor people poorer and homeless, which includes IDS and Osborne.

So others are allowed to say evil bastards without it being queried?

I would suggest that several years living in a refugee camp where food and water are in limited supply, where you live a restricted and supervised life, and you are highly dependant on foreign aid, is far more likely to lead to a young person adopting radical views than leaving your home and travelling straight across a continent to a new country will. So we may well screen the adults but there is a high possibility that we will be admitting the terrorists of the future. This doesn't mean I am opposed to taking people from the camps it is simply a counter argument to the one being presented. I don't care how we admit people but we must do so. The poorest countries in the world are dealing with this crisis and the richest ones (with the exception of Germany) are sitting and watching.

Ha Ha, Marmark, In my neck of the woods all the immigrants are in Waitrose and the hard-up middle class shoppers are down in Aldi sussing out the

Rose,don't be such a snob,I rarely shop in Waitrose,only as a treat.But I rarely shop in lidl either.But I'm told by one of my "Good down to earth hard working class Freinds " that you see a lot of immigrants in there.

It would be hard to hazard a guess who is the most intolerant extreme left or right, in many ways they are pretty much the same when it comes to "it's my way or the highway attitude" I can appreciate that not everyone wants a Tory government but "evil bastards" really!!!!

How about the 200 strong left wing rabble that gathered outside a cafe with paint bombs intimidating staff, and customers, including children, simply because they don't want what they see as the gentrification of an East London area, I posted on "AIBU cereal offenders" earlier Are they evil bastards? I'd say they were.

God help us if we ever get a government of extremes, they are both as bad.

Btw - slightly off subject, but following on from anti austerity demonstrators, Yanis Varoufakis ex Finance Minister of Greece stated on Thursday night's QT we have experienced very little in the way of austerity in the UK so far. I presume he should know!

dj going way OTT again.

Heavens, I wouldn't choose Jeremy Corbyn as my favourite person, but I wouldn't be so offensive as to describe him as an evil bastard! I think that is a pretty hideous description and more appropriate for jihadi John!
Of course we don't know that people in the camps are genuine, but at least they have been properly assessed and are less llikely to wish us harm. I agree with petra that most of our help should be concentrated on making the camps more bearable for these poor souls. I understand that the 'evil bastards' that are our government actually give more money than anyone else in Europe! Well, one person's bastard is another's benefactor!

It seems that Victor Orban, Prime Minister of Hungary doesn't think multiculturism has worked in Western Europe. This is of course a blanket statement, in many ways it has worked and we have some great communities that have assimilated and brought benefits and skills to their prospective countries, but the mono culture of Eastern Europe would not comprehend that side of the equation. However, he is of course partially right there are isolated communities who don't assimilate and have no allegiance to their adopted country and bring customs and ways that are at odds with the society they wish to live in.

Rose,aren't you the lucky one,you won't see many of them in Waitrose
Marmark1 about what I won't see many of in Waitrose
Are there any in Lidl? Perhaps I can try there

"How do you know that those in the camps are not meaning us harm"
This is one of the reasons why I believe that all our help should be done in the camps.
I also believe that the majority of migrants on their way to Europe are not genuine refugees.

How do you know, nigglie, that those in the camps are not meaning us harm?
They do not have IS tattooed on their skin.

Lots of evil bastards in this world; some of them in our government, unfortunately. You're not going to pretend that Osborne and IDS are saints, are you?

It is indeed right that there should be proper protections and systems in place. Difficult to conjure these up at speed I guess; and we have to react to the urgency of the situation.

It's a sad fact that there are some people who con their way into this country who do mean us harm. We are a very trusting nation and reluctant to recognise this. The first duty of any government is the protection of the country and it's citizens, so they need to be vigilant which is why imo D.C. is doing exactly the right thing in taking families from refugee camps and not allowing a free for all. Hope this has answered your query.

In agree with you that there need to be proper plans in place in order to try and head off problems; I also agree that there are evil people in the world. I just don't quite get how the word "conning" comes into the refugee crisis nellie.

Either you are suggesting that it is all an IS inspired plot to infiltrate Europe; or that most of the migrants are not in fact refugees.

I do not doubt that there will be evil people who will manipulate this sad situation to their own ends; but the fact remains that millions of people are living under siege/war conditions and who can blame them for trying to flee and save their families?

PS I do not think I could be described as a tree-hugger (I do not know what the relevance of this is to the discussion) but I am a fellow human being to these refugees and do not think we can turn our backs on them - be properly prepared for the inevitable problems, but not turn our backs. Just because something might be challenging does not mean it is not right.

Of course migration can bring great benefits to a nation, but not to a saturation point, when it becomes actually detrimental to any host country; Let's face it any government anywhere that allows this to happen would be totally irresponsible. Germany unfortunately is beginning to recognise that unlimited migration can and will cause everyone, including the migrants themselves, enormous logistic and cultural problems. There has to be some proper plan in place for everyone's sake or else community services for a start will be completely overwhelmed, never mind the provision of jobs and housing. Let's face it there are 70 million of us on this very small island so space could become an issue never mind a backlash, particularly from people who have been waiting goodness knows how long on the housing list only to be pipped at the post, as they may well see it, again and again.

I would suggest nellie that the only people who are actually really conning us are those in power who insist on telling us that we cannot afford to look after our own poor never mind the refugees

Really?

And again, Nellie. Do some of you find it hard to accept that there are evil bastards in this world and no amount of "let's talk about this" is going to change them. There's only one thing they understand, and the sooner the powers that be put it into practice the sooner lives will be saved.

I would suggest nellie that the only people who are actually really conning us are those in power who insist on telling us that we cannot afford to look after our own poor never mind the refugees. It is much easier to control people if you convince them that they are under threat both economically and politically. Successive studies have shown that migration can bring great benefits to the host country. Internationalism has a rich and varied history and I can see no reason why it should not flourish and prevail today.

Well said Niggly!

Who is conning who? people from all sections of society who prey on others. i.e. rogue traders, football touts, cold callers, income tax dodgers, and, yes refugees who are not all they seem to be and many more. You are never going to have a world where everyone in it is a fine upstanding citizen. As for bad always happening? Give me a period of history when it hasn't reared it's head? Realistically no amount of tree hugging will make a ha porth of difference to human nature as there are a lot a fantastic people out there as well as downright wicked ones; always have been and sadly always will be.