Cutting Benefit deaths

The left-winger having a rant is the one who forced the government to give out the figures.
If it wasn't for him, they would have been shelved by IDS. He's having a rant because the figures have been massaged. He has his justification now, in the fact that the UN are going to probe the welfare reforms.

This is interesting.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/30/united-nations-to-probe-iain-duncan-smiths-welfare-reforms-for-grave-violations-of-human-rights/

Violation of human rights, eh? Who would have thought it.

I don't disagree with you when you say "If the government wants to cut benefits they should at least be open and honest about who is affected and the results of the policy", trisher and have felt this since all this started. I think there are many people who are far from being fans of this Conservative government who still believe changes have to be made, if only to ensure those who are in most need are cared for. This should be with consultation, honesty and openness; I don't think we can forget that before the election the Tories refused to tell the voters where they were going to make cuts. After all this is our National Insurance system not the Conservatives charity box.

Hopefully Fullfact may come back on this. They are politically neutral so when it comes to facts and figures I feel more able to believe them than someone who appears to be left-wing having a rant. I am sure more will come out over the coming days.

For me the relevant fact is
The date the claim ended is irrelevant; the fact that they were found fit for work and then died is the important part.
Reading the restrictions and conditions imposed when he tried to get at the facts about what was happening I find it increasingly upsetting. If the government wants to cut benefits they should at least be open and honest about who is affected and the results of the policy.
If it is successful and isn't causing distress why not show this?

Goodnight. Too much thinking stops me sleeping.

I am off to my bed. Enough of thinking

Mmm, me too.

I worry that I am getting to the stage when I start saying "I don't like that young man's tone" It makes me feel old but he just writes like someone who wants to be angry.

I started when they were fact checking the election promises.

I do.

They are sort of crown funded I think. You can donate.

They do not normally work over the weekend. We'll have to wait until Tuesday. Have to pay them more to work over the weekend!

We shall have to wait and see. Full Fact may well reply.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/28/full-facts-fit-for-work-coverage-is-unfit-for-use-as-toilet-paper/

Mike Sivier on Voxpolitical did not like that factcheck, Gracesgran.

This is what he thinks of it. Now I do not know what to think!

Reading the Full Fact report it shows several things which make this clearer and, possibly, why we do need proper analysis.

1.If someone is found fit for work and appeals they will continue to get ESA while the appeal process continues.
2.As is logical a claim ends with the death of a claimant.
3.The data used in the articles in the papers is collected every two weeks.
4.If the DWP are given notice of a death but no date an estimated date between the two collection dates is used.
5.They would then be recorded as someone ending their claim because of death.
6.They would also be recorded as having died “within” the two week collection period so both having ended their claim and having died. The connection is that the death ended the claim not that the claim ended and then they died in these circumstances.

This is not to say that nobody ever died within two weeks of their claim being ended for other reasons but it puts a whole different view on the figures.

This is what makes me despise sections of the media. I heard a newspaper editor or some such saying, as he reviewed the papers the other night, that they were called the media because their job was to mediate between the raw information and what is published. It sounded like a man hauling himself on to a pedestal when I heard it but, if it is true, and seeing what Full Fact can find out, they are doing it extremely badly. I am so glad people like Full Fact now exist.
fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/fit_for_work_deaths_ESA-47588

Sorry I don't need any proper analysis. If one person is subjected to this treatment and is designated fit for work and dies soon afterwards that is one person too many. The purpose of state benefits is to support the weakest and most needy and they are failing to do this.

That's why the government gave the figures in the form they did, Eloethan.

This is Debbie Abrahams' response.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2015/08/28/comment-ian-duncan-smith-has-shown-he-is-no-longer-fit-for-w

Last word is "work", believe it or not.

These people's deaths may not have been linked to the "fit for work" findings (although one might think that the heightened anxiety arising from the pressure to find work and potential or actual benefit cuts would be bound to worsen some health conditions). What matters more, I feel, is that they were assessed as "fit" when their deaths shortly after the assessments would suggest otherwise.

Of course, without a proper analysis (e.g statistically, during the same period, how many working people not subject to the assessment process die unexpectedly?) it is difficult to form definite conclusions. Personally, though, I think more and more evidence is stacking up to suggest that the assessment procedure contains major flaws and cannot be relied upon to identify who is or isn't fit for work.

Wow! I have just been on the link I gave about the petition on the government's e-petition site.
Under the petition it gives a link for more details, so I clicked on that, and there was a link to this.

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/reign-of-terror-iain-duncan-smith.html

I've read anotherangryvoice lots of times, but what surprised me was that there was a link to this blog on the government website.

Do they want rid of IDS as well?
There is a committee which has to pass these petitions.

Thanks for the links dj. Petition signed. Corbyn once again on the right side-amazing man.

voxpoliticalonline.com/

Stansgran, the rest of the voxpolitical website. I realised the last one came to a sudden halt.

voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/28/ids-special-adviser-gets-peerage-as-dwp-admits-thousands-died-after-fit-for-work-assessments/

Interesting idea, Questiontime. I wonder who will try the citizen's arrest on IDS.

In the meantime there is an e-petition on the government website which needs lots more signatures to have him brought before parliament and explain these figures.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104436

235 signatures in the last hour. The only way IDS can be on trend.

www.jeremyforlabour.com/deaths_whilst_on_incapacity_benefits

This is what Corbyn says about them. Those who think he should toe the party line should note that this was one of the times he voted against the Labour government. Blair brought in the WCA.

This Government can be accused of manslaughter.

What an ugly and disgusting set of figures.