Breaking News - Allegedly 10 people killed at office of satirical magazine in Paris

Well said, Joan. Couldn't agree more. We jeopardise a free press at our peril.

Someone on the Today prog this morning mentioned 'self-censorship' and suggested that journalists might be forced into this. He also said 'and who's to blame them?' although he wasn't advocating it. I truly hope journalists are brave enough not to go down that route.

Well said, Joan. Couldn't agree more. We jeopardise a free press at our peril.

Someone on the Today prog this morning mentioned 'self-censorship' and suggested that journalists might be forced into this. He also said 'and who's to blame them?' although he wasn't advocating it. I truly hope journalists are brave enough not to go down that route.

Well said, Joan. Couldn't agree more. We jeopardise a free press at our peril.

Someone on the Today prog this morning mentioned 'self-censorship' and suggested that journalists might be forced into this. He also said 'and who's to blame them?' although he wasn't advocating it. I truly hope journalists are brave enough not to go down that route.

Every time something like this happens, mainstream Muslims suffer, and divisions in society intensify. I don't know what these vicious murderers hope to achieve, but it hurts everyone.

I have very strong principles against prejudice, but at times like this I have to rely on these principles to get me through it. I used to work for a weekly paper, and visualised my old colleagues when I read about the journos and cartoonists being killed.

This deed was unforgivable.

I DISAGREE that Charlie Hebdo journalists and cartoonists should have pulled their horns in and considered Muslim backlash. The whole point of their work was to satirise everything, including politics and all religions. In any case, the French are highly protective of their revolution, and the freedom from religious coercion it gave them. They would regard capitulation on free speech as counter-revolutionery, and deeply wrong.

Watch for more satire, more cartoons, and more defiance. These murderous idiots have pissed off the French big time. This is just the beginning.

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I have only just read the whole of this thread; it is heartening to read so much reasoned and heartfelt discussion of this terrible act. I have said before, (and often cited the dreadful things done, in the past, in the name of Christ), that when people are so convinced, by blind faith, that they are right and everyone else is wrong, there is no reasoning with them.

This applies to fundamentalism and totalitarianism of all types, and is why it is so frightening when we are faced with people who cannot prove, or argue, but insist their way is the only way, like IS.

If we say that the satirists were creating trouble, and should have been stopped, are we not giving in out of fear? But then, we are right to be afraid, for all the reasons above. Religions, or what men have done in the name of religions, have much to answer for.

Some may be offended by satire, some offended by what is written in a book, some offended by a film.

There will always be somebody offended by something because that is human nature.

The difference is when Charlie Hebdo run cartoons using satire against the Pope catholic people will more than likely be offended. Nobody in their right mind would justify/agree with catholics murdering those who printed the cartoons.

You will never be able to satisfy the likes of IS because they only have one mantra. 'Our way or death' they hold no respect for life and we all know the depths of depravity and barbarism they sink to.

The fact the discussion ever moves to satire in cartoons is shifting the guilt away from the truth. This is a group of people who will do anything to destabilise democracy through murder .

In a previous post I mentioned the burning of mosques in Sweden and marches in Germany against the 'Islamisation of west'. Mosques in France are reported to have incidents last night. This action only feeds into the hands of the jihadist we all know but I hope to goodness common sense takes a hold.

My absolute fear is knowing there has been a rise against the jewish community, seeing a rise against the Muslim community and we have to accept a rise against western values and democracy. Can it be contained or god forbid get's worse ?

Quote from Sir Salman Rushdie today "Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today."

Further to my post one of the wounded, a female police officer has died.

Whether the incident she was involved in was related to terrorism or not the fact remains France is having a bad time of it. When and where next?

crun, to answer your post where you quoterd me, I don't personally like satire at all. Too often it is cruel. But, as others have said, it's been around for a long time and I doubt it will stop now. It is popular with too many people. I do think, however, in the times we live in, satirists should think about the innocent bystanders who will inevitably get hurt when revenge is meted out on them. A policeman doing his daily work was one such in this case. There were probably others.

We need to stop pussyfooting around what extremists think is justifiable.

Yes Thatbags. David Aaronovitch has also said that by taking a cowardly approach to those who threaten freedom of speech, and accommodating them, publications such as Charlie Hebdo have become outliers and thus, in the eyes of extremists, justifiable targets.
www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4316868.ece

Another shooting incident this morning where 2 people have suffered gun shot wounds. An explosion in a kebab shop near as mosque.

Neither of them have been called acts of terrorism, too early to call but will France and other countries see more trouble on a regular basis???? I think this could well be the case.

I see both the BBC and SKY News have run a selection of cartoons from the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists which looks like the intention behind doing so is to show solidarity for those who were murdered.

Does any GN from another country know if this is happening where they live?

I am interested to know if this is just happening here or worldwide.

What gracesgran said is said in the Times today too. Spot on.

The police claimed to have found ID of the gunmen in the car. Which hardly seems plausible. Later, questions were being asked as to what the authorities new in the morning that they didn't appear to know in the afternoon.

I'm puzzled as to how the police, within hours, named the three suspects - surely they didn't leave behind a calling card, or claim responsibility?

Poor boy, he looks so young.

Meet the Muslim hero policeman who died:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MuslimIQ/status/553038771164561410/photo/1

The Kalashnikov may be the terrorist's weapon of choice, but in the free world the pen will always remain mightier than the sword.

What those of religion need to realise is that the defence of democracy, which includes freedom of speech within the law, defends their right to practice their religion (again within the law), some of which can seem laughable or even outrageous to other members of the same society.

The satirists who were killed satirised everything. It's always allright. Murder is always not allright. Nothing is 'defended' by murdering people who draw satirical cartoons.

The French police are suggesting that this attack was the responsibility of Al Qaeda in Yemen. Today 37 people were killed and 66 injured by a bomb blast outside a police academy in Sanaa. Suggesting that the general population of European Moslems secretly approve of terrorist attacks in the West is a canard of the worst possible kind and in the worst possible taste.

The editor has been quoted as saying "I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees". This is a quote from the Mexican revolution and was used in the Spanish Civil War I believe.

Defending freedom of speech is defending freedom and you are on a very slippery slope when you start to mitigate that defence with such phrases as "But we must use common sense to protect innocent people." This will not stop those who want power through fear and we may end up loosing our democracy, our freedom and our lives.

"I am not saying that satire itself is necessarily puerile - some of it may be, some of it can be very funny."

So, it's OK except for when the target says that it isn't?

" It's knowing when to use it that needs sensible judgement."

It's sensible just as long as the target isn't trying to blackmail you?

Via Twitter: "a Muslim policeman died defending Charlie Hebdo".

The French police appear to be looking for two brothers aged 32 and 34 and an 18 year old. Their names are out on the Internet.