Breaking News - Allegedly 10 people killed at office of satirical magazine in Paris

I am not making a counter argument about the free press, which I of course endorse and treasure. I am just saying that it is a shame that it is used to express provocative hatred, instead of intelligent well-considered satire aimed at righting wrongs.

petallus and mishapDoesn't matter, the point is that they can be published. If you are;-
christian
gay
muslim
socialist
conservative
republican
monarchist
jew
hindu
anti-hunt
want to talk about Prince Andrew as we did last week
etc etc

You can talk openly and freely about your views without fear or hindrance. It is what makes countries like ours worth living in. Some of what we read or hear we will be appalled at, but we are free to make the counter-argument as you are doing above and all power to you.

Indeed, does not justify the barbarism in any way at all - I'm just asking what the point of such cartoons is apart from a desire to give offence. The freedom of the press is too precious to be wasted on this rubbish.

Those cartoons seem to be more about hatred than satire.

Still does not justify murder of course. Absolutely not.

Here are two examples of cartoons that have appeared in the publication in question:

In one, Muhammad is bending over naked, a star covering his arsehole; the caption reads "A star is born."
In another, above the caption "The film that will set the Muslim world on fire," Muhammad is shown naked lying on a bed, being filmed from behind, saying "My arse? And you love it, my arse?"

Is this what people fought for a free press for? Is this what we want the press to be doing? Who gains from this stuff? What is the point of it?

I defend their right to publish these cartoons, but feel sad that they feel the need to do so. In this year of the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta that was a step on the way to the freedoms we so value, why do we have this provocative and wholly unnecessary rubbish in our papers? I just don't get it.

As I said before, clever and intelligent articles and cartoons that have a go at those who deserve it are fine and serve the purpose of drawing attention to injustices, but what is this silliness for?

I do not think spurious or genuine motives are the point Terribull

Using fear by targeting all and sundry as terrorist attacks do is the same act regardless of a terrorists 'motive'. My point was that generally catholics did not associate themselves with the the IRA although it was a very 'religious' divide that motivated them. My argument is that the current terrorist threats from those using Islam as a 'motive' is far removed from majority of Muslim's view of their faith so they are simply as appalled as the rest of the community at the atrocities.

But Jingle, you can't 'keep your nose out of it'. Everyone's noses are being firmly rubbed in 'it' whether we like it or not. We can't ignore it or pretend it's not happening. There are very many really dangerous situations involving religious fanaticism. Arguably there always have been, in one way or another, but what's important is how we respond now. And I don't know the answer to that, except that it's even more dangerous to up the ante.

With reference to comparisons between Islamic terrorists and IRA bombers, wasn't the IRA's campaign more about a desire for a united Ireland by the Northern Irish Catholics and the fact that they as indigenous people of that country were being treated as second class citizens. I don't remember the IRA making a lot of references to whether Jesus would have seen their actions as justifiable.

Until something really unfortunate like this atrocious assassination is thrust upon them, politicians continue to treat the incompatibility of a fundamentalist religion that is daggers drawn with our own western culture as the elephant in the room. It was only a few weeks ago, Angela Merkel deemed the Germans who marched through the streets of Dresden to have hate in their hearts. I'm not advocating marches of that type I don't think they are the way forward, but I think there is concern in a lot of European counties now as to what people see as the insidious Islamifcation of Europe. Politicians need to stop shutting down the debate and resorting to platitudes. Never has there been a greater urgency to address the concerns of their citizens. When a situation plays out such as the Charlie Hebdo assassinations I think it's clear for all to see who has the most "hate in their hearts"

The best people to do this are the moderate Muslims themselves, I previously referred to an interview with a Muslim man from The Quilliam Foundation, his words were concise, reasoned and cut right to the heart of the matter.

I remember after the 7/7 bombings the BBC particularly kept playing over and over a pre recording from one of the dead terrorists. When feelings were running high, I found the last thing I wanted to hear every time I switched on the news were the rantings of a finger jabbing swivel eyed loon as to why we in the west deserved this because of our government's appalling foreign policy and furthermore we had more of the same coming our way.

Neither do I want to hear how they can justify atrocities by relating it back to something Mohammed may have decreed. Here's a thing, what Mohammed may have said means as much to most of us as what Confucius may, or may not have said, Allah isn't my god so taken out of the context of history this religion isn't relevant to many of us even though it's shoved in our faces daily. I don't care what people believe or don't believe. We have many Hindus, Sikhs and other denominations living here in the UK, I don't know what percentage of the population they are, but their presence is completely unobtrusive. I honestly believe that most people have no problem with "the difference" some cultures might bring and are happy they have the freedom to follow their religion and worship as they see fit.

The Media could really do us all a favour and not give Islamists the platform they crave their rhetoric is alarming and they do a great disservice to the peaceful Muslim community who are the majority.

It's rather poignant to hear that Charlie Hebdo had a smallish circulation, a few thousand, and was in financial straits - now the dead staff are stars and heroes.

The next print-run is set for one million.

There must be a lot of soul-searching in major newspapers around the world that the burden of standing up to violent threats from fanatics was shouldered by a couple of brave publications.

I think this presents a balanced and reasonable response www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/opinion/nicholas-kristof-lessons-from-the-charlie-hebdo-shooting-in-paris.html?emc=edit_ty_20150108&nl=opinion&nlid=70471830

"I think a lot of people will soon lose patience with ordinary Muslims if they do not start to stand up and be counted. God help the world then."

That is the fear.

The level of insanity in these people is exemplified by the fact that the normal instinct of human beings to seek their own survival no longer exists - they truly believe that they will be rewarded in heaven for their barbarity and are happy to die. Imagine the level of indoctrination required to wipe out the basic instinct of all creatures on earth. Makes you shudder.

Why on earth should people not make comments about a religion? A religion is, to all intents and purposes, an opinion. I can see no problem with making satirical remarks about them and many of the more extreme beliefs deserve to be mocked, scorned or derided particularly the opinions/beliefs of those who demand that other believe what they do - or die!

I agree with that too Anya.

Mishap and Jingle are making sense to me

And me.
I had no idea that freedom of speech means freedom to be unkind. It is the opposite of love.
And I will say, as it needs to be kept resaying, that
Mass murder is indefensible - that is a given

I do believe these evil people actually believe their twisted version of Islam is the correct one. That's why they are dangerous.

I think a lot of people will soon lose patience with ordinary Muslims if they do not start to stand up and be counted. God help the world then.

Do you think these evil people are true believers in the Islamic religion. They are not. They have nothing to do with any true religion. They are out for their own power and glory.

Do you really think IRA bombers were really committed Christians, of whichever denomination? They were not.

Mass murder is indefensible - that is a given.

I am not suggesting that religion should be exempt from criticism, comment and discussion.

I am just asking whether the freedom of the press (a scared tenet that I would not disagree with) exempts editors from using discretion and good taste. Because they have the power to be as offensive as they might choose to anyone at all, does this mean that they should exercise that right? Or should we expect better from them?

The shock of all this leaves me very raw and angry, and it would be very easy just to demand vengeance. But first of all, we have to face the unpleasant fact that living in our midst are fellow citizens so alienated from our way of life that they are prepared to kill and maim us. They take advantage of our more tolerant and relaxed ways and something must be done to stop them. Moderate Muslims must stand up and be counted, and extremists of all persuasions must be ridiculed. Patience and tolerance will win through in the end. Defective though aspects our way of life may be, there is none better, and it must be protected vigorously against the threats of terrorism and thuggery.

Sorry can't accept that. Why should religion be exempt from criticism, comment, discussion. After all many of the atrocities (past and present) were/are committed in this world are in the name of religion. Are we not to comment on this and just keep our noses out?

How did it happen that a cartoon drawing caused so much offence that the payback was mass murder?

Mishap and Jingle are making sense to me.

I've finished. Do carry on.

"Even some of the cartoons or articles in Private Eye can verge on offensive but we don't shoot the cartoonists and journalists"

Is someone on this thread actually advocating shooting anyone? I don't think so! Nobody is taking away at all from the wickedness of these people. They are evil.