Ashamed to be human

We can try and "educate" them. oops, even writing that seems wrong. All sort of colonism.

There is a lot of opposition to this 'in their own country' so I don't see it as being arrogant enough to 'tell them what to do' but rather as giving support to the groups in Nepal and India fighting to have the slaughter stopped. In fact the Indian government has banned transport of animals into Nepal and border controls have been stepped up to try to prevent the movement of cattle for sacrifice. Many Hindus are appalled at the practice and do not see it as having any place in modern day Hindusim, which is generally a very peaceful religion. I am happy to give them my support.

Thanks for the link to the petition Nfk, it's still worth signing to keep the pressure on before the next festival in five years time.

Cruelty is cruelty, wherever it takes place and whoever does it. The humane raising and slaughter of animals for food is one thing, but the periodic, frenzied public mutilation and slaughter of animals in the open for so-called religious purposes is indefensible, as is the mutilation of children. So, yes, at times I am to be ashamed to be part of the human race.

I think until we shake off this fear of being seen as 'telling people what to do' and instead accept that we can support people to change things for themselves we will keep on sitting back and allowing evil to thrive. That applies to all sorts of things, as absent rightly says. We should never be afraid to speak out against barbaric and cruel practices whether they are to other humans or to other species.

Such wanton destruction and cruelty is hard to understand, particularly as presumably the meat isn't even used for food. Otherwise, as petallus said, wouldn't the scene in an abbatoir (although on a smaller scale) seem equally gruesome and barbaric?

I think, as others have said, the best thing to do is to support the Indian and Nepalese organisations that oppose these practices.

Why are so many religions obsessed with sacrifice and suffering?

Helping poor countries build schools so kids can go to school is not colonialism. One could call it charitableness, just as it was in this country when schools were initially provided for poor kids.

The kind of education I'm talking about is not the sort that would tell people their customs are wrong but the sort that teaches people to read so that they can get to know about other views of the world and then decide for themselves because they have a choice how they lead their lives.

that sort of education is obviously fine.

papaoscar even though I don't eat meat myself, I would not disagree that the humane raising and slaughtering of animals for food is defensible.

But I don't think the meat production industry is, on the whole, humane. There is tremendous cruelty involved in the raising and slaughter of animals, all in the name of endless supplies of cheap meat for the consumer and maximum profits for the provider.

I would guess that those animals undergoing ritual slaughter for religious purposes do not suffer any more than animals reared in the West for food.

I saw a wildlife programme where they showed films of animals in schools as a way of stopping the children growing up and hunting the local monkeys for food and poaching in general. It's not a quick fix but it will reap rewards in the future. It wasn't all that long ago that people in this country travelled miles to watch hangings and treated them as a good days entertainment. When your life is pretty precarious people seem to get comfort from watching horrid things.Which doesn't defend it. Deep down inside us we are still hunter gatherers, and our close relatives, chimpanzees show that. I agree with educating the people in Nepal for what has happened but I can't demonize them for it.

Perhaps the people of Napal would think breeding birds for people to shoot for sport so very wrong, or a gang of thugs on horseback with a pack of hounds chasing a solitary animal across the country side so very wrong , do they practice battery farming in Napal?

Does anyone know how many turkeys are about to be slaughtered for the Christmas table?

Taking just the UK and the USA into account, it must be many tens of thousands (at least).

Christmas is a religious festival to many people, especially in the USA.

At least the turkeys are eaten for food.

If the animals slaughtered in Nepal were cooked and the meat eaten as part of the festival, they would have contributed to the feeding of the hungry.

Excavations of prehistoric sites show evidence of similar mass ritual sacrifices - but also of vast crowds gathered together for the feast. Much more practical.

I can see using the slaughtered animals for food would make a moral difference. Not sure it would be much consolation to the animals though!

Half a loaf is better than none? It would be a start toward them considering the madness of wanton destruction, which could perhaps lead on to more. Just condemning the whole thing from our position outside the religion won't work. We just get the "You don't understand our traditions" resistance.

I think we get a bit too squeamish about being PC, non-racist etc. Sometimes something is just plain wrong and indefensible. This is one of them. It is OK to say so.

Should we condone FGM or black magic practices that result in child abuse because we are afraid to appear racist? No - we should declare these practices as being fundamentally wrong.

I am not an animal rights person, or a vegetarian, but the waste of meat when there are people starving is unacceptable.

I am not telling these people how to live their lives, I am just saying that in my opinion this is wrong.

Bags is quite right that education is the key to eliminating superstition.

I hope no Hindus happen to read this thread. I have reported it. Sorry, but I think that this is beyond the pale.

Good luck with that, soontobe.
This is a perfectly legitimate thread.

Free speech? What has happened to that? I thought that was what people fought for in the last two world wars.

There are many Hindus who will read this thread and agree with many of the views expressed; and there are many who won't - they are free to hold and express that view, just as we are to express ours. It is called living in a democracy.

There is nothing we can do to stop people behaving in this way - but we are rightly allowed to express our abhorrence. I would not like to live in a country where we could not do so.

These sort of attempts to bar free speech contributed to the widespread child abuse in Rochdale, as no-one dared speak out - I hope we have learned the lesson from that.

I feel the same. I've been following the activities of Sea Shepherd in Japan this year via Facebook. The slaughter of dolphins and whales and capturing some for a life of captivity. It's awful, they slaughter these sensitive mammals in front of each other and they dump the babies back at sea so they don't get in the way of the fishermen's quota. It's just horrible.

I think as intelligent and powerful beings, we have a moral duty to try to stop suffering around the world. We are raping and pillaging the planet, one way or another, I think that matters. It's not the same as trying to destroy other cultures, but it is trying to improve the general lot of everyone. And labels like racism just distract from trying to interact with others on some level.

I mean, what about the Taliban attacking health workers in Afghanistan because they think polio vaccinations are evil and Western and so children are getting polio again for the first time in decades. What should we do, go 'oh it's their culture'?

We dont have free speech. That is just a myth.
We do not have a moral right to be so disrespectful to people of other religions to ours.
It is not a loving thing to do.

Rochdale was very wrong. The people in Nepal are following their religion. We may not agree with it, but it is their beliefs.

Up to gransnet to decide.

I want to say more, but I have to go out.

I'm not so sure about free speech.

Surely there are laws about, for instance, making anti-Semitic comments, anti gay comments, racist comments, sexism, to name but a few.

How outraged are we when UKIP members come out with one of their remarks?

I am uncomfortable with judgemental comments being made about other people's beliefs and cultural practices and with such absolute certainty.

It is indeed their belief - but no-one is obliged to agree with it and we are free to say so.

Rochdale was wrong; slaughtering thousands of animals and wasting the food produced is also wrong. I condemn both.

There's something about Western nations and their conviction that they are entitled to educate, persuade, coerce, other 'lesser' cultures into seeing the error of their ways.

Reminds me of early missionaries going over to Africa and making people cover their sinful nakedness and convert to Christianity

This thread is not anti-Hindu, soontobe It is about a specific thing that has been done by Hindus.

Many Hindu widows in India were expected to committ suttee - to throw themselves onto their husband's funeral pyre and burn to death with him. Was it anti-Hindu to abhor that expectation and practice?