Ukrainan Crash

I am unfortunately less confident in American technical expertise this week than last. One would think that the centre for disease control in the US (thy do loads of nationally funded research into bacteria and viruses) would be top-notch on their health and safety...
www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0711-lab-safety.html

A friend made the point yesterday that those in charge of these missiles could be drunk. Good point I thought.

Apologists can add something powerful if controversial to debate.
Spiteful remarks add nothing.

Just an observation.

Thanks, Granny!

Oh dear, clearly an inability to understand the difference between the words apologist and apologising- <shakes head sadly>.And wow Ana another powerful contribution to a serious thread .

Surely it must be apparent by now that Granny's opinion must not be challenged?

Thank goodness for that rosequartz - I was beginning to think I'd somehow slipped into the twilight zone!

No-one, Holly.

Who was apologising?

I am truly truly by these apologists for mass murderers - we are now supposed to buy into cultural differences into the treatment of dead bodies - many of them children- being left in the open? In that case Holly why are decent ordinary locals now moving the bodies whilst the killers loot and pose amongst the debris and the belongings and prevent professional investigators from gaining access?

And of course it's absolutely perfectly normal for bodies to be left out in the open isn't it for 2 days?

In that country it may well be if they're not one of their own.

You can find flight arrival and departures, flightpaths and altitudes of flights on several websites. I don't believe that the pro russian separatists did not have access to any computers smart phones etc. If they were trying to down troop transport planes, surely they could have found out what traffic was using their airspace. All commercial flights are easilly identified with binoculars. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING.

Wars and rumours of wars in the Bible I`m not particularly religious but have been thinking of that text a lot recently. There are just so many going on at the moment.

I`m pro America because I think we need their expertise in many things

Apparently a lot of airlines were using that route to save on fuel; I don't think it was a no-fly zone, rather it was advised not to use that airspace.

It has shocked so many people worldwide. The terrorists, backed by Russia, claimed they thought it was a military aircraft, but if so many airlines use that route, that seems like a convenient lie.

And of course it's absolutely perfectly normal for bodies to be left out in the open isn't it for 2 days? I never watch any news other than C4, so I'll see what they have to say.

I felt disgusted by the method of the BBC news reporting - I know they do the whole sensationlist bit now as well but it sounded more like lines from a cheap novel.

Apparently, they have received training but there is some confusion over recognising the difference between the responders (which indicate if it is a commercial airline or military).

According to the news, they don't know yet what brought the plane down.

It isn't unusual for a country to refuse or limit immediate access to a crash site - they will be equally nervous about items being removed or evidence being faked and let's face it, they're not the most rational of people are they.

Yes niggly absolutely! And also, the area was not a no fly zone ( although it should have been)- Virgin for example were flying over once a week. And I don't believe for one minute they were properly trained or else they would have recognised a civilian aircraft - and if they were properly trained and did recognise it... Well damned if they did and damned if they didn't .

Can only agree with that, niggly.

Well if, in the unlikely event, they weren't monsters then, they certainly are behaving like monsters now. Looting the site, standing holding a child's soft toy like a trophy, stealing money, and anything else they can lay their mucky paws on, (even taking peoples credit cards!) not allowing investigators to do their job, threatening them so that they are forced to back off!! bodies being spirited away, need I go on?! Don't exactly look like people who are horrified at what they've done! and If that's not monstrous then I don't know what is!!!

I don't think that this was the result of someone taking a pot shot at the sky; they had been trained and knew what they were doing. Most other airlines, or so I believe [including Russian ones] were no longer using that air space. I'm afraid that I'm being a bit 'head in the sand' about the whole event, though, because I find it unbelieveably upsetting [I know it's cowardly of me].

I'll go with calling them monsters - a group of poorly trained but well equipped terrorists ( this is not a 'proper' war) who have sophisticated equipment they don't know how to use properly firing into the sky where they know full well civilian planes may be. Calling it a mistake is nonsense - negligent homicide at the very least - if a man with no license at the wheel of a powerful car ploughed into a group of schoolchildren, would you call that a mistake or demand he was charged with at least manslaughter ?

With satellite technology and the fact this is a (civil) war area there must be pictures of the event.

Perhaps a bit unfair to call the separatists "monsters" in this instance.This was most likely a terrible mistake.

I also wonder how the rest of Europe can be so crazy as to rely on Russia for their gas. I heard on the radio last night Germany is the biggest exporter to Russia while it also gets all it's gas from them. It seems incredibly naive of their government if true.

No doubt the separatists (monsters!) are well aware that the investigators will be able to tell exactly who, what and how that plane was brought down. How do they know this? Well surprise surprise, courtesy of western journalist's, and the people they have been interviewing. Why oh Why can't they just for once keep quiet! These people watch TV in exactly the same way as we do satellite and all, so forewarned is forearmed! Why are we SO stupid!!

It seems that separatists are now preventing investigators from reaching the crash site. Would they be doing that if they weren't responsible? QED