Scotland YES or NO

Only the blue would go from the Union flag Mrs Mopp. It could be replaced with a white top and green bottom so Wales could get recognition at last.

but he [Gordon Brown] can obviously be trusted by the Scottish people

Then they would be wise to revisit his time as Chancellor and Prime Minister before placing that trust in him:

www.politicsforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=526202 (scroll down to post: 06 Mar 2007, 11:53 )

Also:

'Labour's 2005 manifesto had pledged to give British public a referendum on the original EU Constitution.[93][94] Brown argued that the Treaty significantly differed from the Constitution, and as such did not require a referendum. He also responded with plans for a lengthy debate on the topic, and stated that he believed the document to be too complex to be decided by referendum'

Yet more:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

and all of that is without mentioning the raid of the pension funds that started this whole sorry pensions mess rolling, sale of gold reserves against the advice of the BofE, how under Brown's watch, the tax burdens fell heavier on the poorest of society.

Gordon Brown has a vested interest in a No vote given that he is now a backbencher and would like to reignite his political career and the UK is his best bet for financial and global reasons so his urge to vote 'No' could well be for purely selfish reasons.

There is no need to change either the Union flag or title. In a post-independence world England, Wales and Northern Ireland would still be united, and the flag, familiar all over the world, should remain unchanged, the blue symbolising the sea which surrounds us. Scotland would be detached and, by its own choice, entirely seperate. No problem.

Perhaps a little dragon then?

If the vote is 'Yes' then I would think that Scotland will negotiate entry into the EU at some point.

This will suit the EU very well as I think the aim is for A United Europe of Regions; the smaller the countries the easier for them to achieve their aim. England would be sub-divided into regions, Wales would probably be one on its own (and the Cornish are falling into the trap too). All regions with less autonomous power and all ruled by Brussels.

Divide and conquer then, rosequartz, you could be right.

I have just heard on the news that Messrs Cameron and Milliband are to campaign in Scotland tomorrow. Won't this be the kiss of death for the Better Together campaign? If anyone can push the Scots to vote for independence, it's probably DC!

I do hope they stay in (sadly a "No" on the ballot paper rather than the positive "Yes we want to stay" would have been). I also hope that once this is past and if they stay then we go for a more federalised UK with a Scottish, Irish, Welsh and English parliament with the English parliament being situated in the middle of England. We would not have "The Commons" as we know as the state parliaments would replace that and the "Lords" would be replaced by a UK parliament.

A very spiteful little piece in today's Times from Melanie Reid.

Anno very true.

A very sensible idea, Gracesnan and I think most of the UK would vote for it, but, and it is a big BUT, the Commons and the HofL will never support a referendum for it because they would then lose or dilute their 'POWER'

How dare our political leaders desert Westminster and PM's questions to scuttle off up to Scotland to try and appease the voters? Shame on the lot of them! And what right does Gordon Brown have to offer to give away UK constitutional powers, in a blatant attempt at buying votes? None! If Scotland choose to go solo then they will have to fight for every single thing they need. 'Braveheart' bravado just won't work in the real world, as the uneasy reaction of the financial markets is beginning to demonstrate. Take care Scotland, lest you bring the house down upon yourselves!

Here! Here' papaoscar'. I totally agree with everything you've said. If the Scots want to go, let them get on with it. The deviousness of ALL politicians just takes your breath away. I just hope the Scots aren't taken in with this attempt at bribery, and as for the three main political leaders scuttling up North to say ?????? at the 11th hour, desperation is a word that comes to mind and that's putting it mildly! Frankly I hope, as do many of us do in the South, that Scotland votes to GO, and be done with it. It could be beneficial both ways round as we would be free of the financial burden that is Scotland and also having to constantly take the flak for all their ills. In the future the blame will be all Holyroods although even years along the line I daresay any upsets will somehow be Westminster's fault!!!

Why should we in the rest of the UK have to watch Scotland and Wales getting goodies that we don't get. Vote YES Scotland.

So the seedy shower of Westminster politicians scuttles north in a shabby last-minute attempt to buy a few votes to protect their own fat jobs and the status quo. Meanwhile the smirking leadership of the SNP, the party without a hope or a plan, prepare to lead the good people of Scotland into oblivion, driven by racism, nationalism, envy and spite. Shame on the lot of them! The UK is our country, yes, all of us, fought for and defended by our ancestors for hundreds of years, and not to be trifled with by modern-day hack politicians just out to line their pockets and feed their bloated egos. The big test will be the 2015 generally election - a real opportunity to clean out the political stables, as it were, and elect some decent people with morals, integrity and the interests of the whole country at heart.

Once again I totally agree. Only one question, where are these decent politicians for us to elect?!! If Scotland votes YES, there is talk of the 2015 election being postponed till after the breakup in 2016! The whole thing is just a complete shambles, a Brian Rix farce. (anyone remember these?!) The rest of the world particularly Europe must be shaking their heads in disbelief. Westminster has allowed this to happen by being so over confident of a NO vote they have dismissed the whole thing with breath-taking arrogance and patronising flippancy that beggars belief, allowing the Nationals in Scotland to gain the high ground and probably victory. the reality for Scotland will be that their country is run by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels which will be as bad if not worse than Westminster. As for these 11th hour 'bribes, by our gallant political leaders, I would think they will be seen for what they are, and dismissed with scorn. We have to face it whichever side of the border we live we are ALL run by arrogant dishonest fools and for my money I wouldn't give any of them the time of day never mind a vote.

brenda Wales may have a few perks not available in England - the only two I can think of offhand are free prescrptions and free hospital car parking - but in exchange we have longer waiting times for hospital treatment and a worse education system . In addition we have to pay £6.40 every time we cross one of the bridges into Wales in the south. Expensive when going out or shopping, but death to business and a huge outlay for people going daily to work.

marelli I realise that the Scottish Parliament funds the freebies in Scotland but there is going to have to be a huge fiscal adjustment if Scotland says Yes, and who knows exactly what funds will be available to the new government. They don't seem to really know themselves, it is all rather vague.

The taxes that go from Scotland to Westminster at the moment would be available. There would be no Barnet Formula - but that comes out of taxes so it could be swings and roundabouts. The Barnet formula is calculated (I believe) as a proportion of population, and the value of the taxes that cross the border going South must be proportionate to the population too.

It could be interesting.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think that all Scots are the same or think the same! I`m almost desperate about this whole situation as you may have guessed from my previous postings. Its all just daft. That Salmond has a good cheek talking about the NO campaign offering bribes. That's all the Yes campaign have been doing all along. The only thing that's different about his offerings is that he cant say how he would pay for it.
All this dissent- you English and Welsh hating us as well as the genuine acrimony felt up here is hellish. People really are scared to openly support NO. Windows with NO signs are smashed, a colleague`s flagpole was torn down, cars are vandalised etc etc. We`ll never be united again within Scotland. Sorry to be so emotional but its so awful up here right now.

We English and Welsh don't hate you, Jane, most of us can see both points of view but many are fearful of the long-term repercussions if the vote goes Salmond's way - for Scotland as well as the rest of the UK.
I have noticed increased antagonism in Wales towards the English which may or may not be a result of this.

Where did this happen, Jane?

Oh dear Jane10, I was so sorry to read your post and your distress at this whole sorry business. Please please don't think that we in the south hate all of you, we certainly don't, well I don't anyway, of course I don't. A lot of how we feel is the result of frustration and I have to say anger at the venom and bile against England that is being peddled by the Nationalist's. I can well understand that it must be horrid for people like you having to live through all this on your doorstep. I think we have all been let down badly by our leaders for this situation to have arisen. complacency from Westminster, and increasing bully boy tactics and smirkiness (is that a word?) from the SNP. All I can say is that I hope whatever the result things calm down and we can all go back to normal, a forlorn hope maybe, but a hope none the less.

Absolute balderdash. Don't be so gullible Niggly and don't believe a word of it Jane has made these allegations before and never came up with any facts to back them up.

Not quite sure what to say to you Aka, Jane sounds pretty distressed to me, but if I'm gullible then so be it. You only have look at some of the Nationalist supporter to see that they look a pretty threatening crowd and I certainly wouldn't want them living near me. Jane is quite right on one thing though, how the SNP intend to pay for all the goodies they've promised is a moot point, so far unanswered.

I haven't heard of anything happening anywhere. No vandalism or damage. Nothing in the media, either - please, niggley, don't worry about 'people like us'!