New British Class System

I'll do that.

Elegran much better if you listen to it in Iplayer, it wouldn't be as funny in print!

No what were they saying?

Anyone hear the Now Show today on this subject?

That'll be it. The words are what you notice.

How about widow and widower. Do you say those the same? Just wondering, because they are the same difference as draw and drawer. Theorising here, but it may be that the single syllable gets lengthened because it feels too short.

Maybe we should move this to Pedants' corner. That should keep everyone profitably occupied for a while. But not me - I really must get on or Monday will see me not ready.

Yes Elegran
I'd have thought I would have noticed, but perhaps no one's ever said it like that when I've been listening!

Ana There are those who say them the same and those who say them differently - it seems to depend on area. Perhaps those who normally don't add an R notice it being added more than someone who does add it notices when it is there.

IYSWIM

I completed this on behalf of my SiL. He left school age 15/16 with 1 O- level / GCSE in Graphic design /Art. He has had no formal training in anything. He has lived rough & been in nick. However he put that behind him and he has built up a successful business through his hard work and manual labour/craftsmanship and had to call me the other night when my DD was out to check how to spell 'look'. He came out as Established Middle Class.... he was a bit confused as to how he felt as he is proud of what he has done to overcome his past and that he is now able to provide a lovely home for his family but part of the pride is because he sees himself as a working man and not middle class....

The cat is out of the bag, a meat draw is just that, a raffle held in working mens clubs ( are there any left) and pubs ( are there any of THEM left) held on a FRiday night. THe prize or prizes are a bag of meat for the weekend. Not to be confused with "Something for the weekend offered to clients in men's barber shops in days of yore
Someone said what was the point of my post? I did post that......-"it was merely an observation with no real life application "

I've never heard that, Elegran! Sounds like one of my GDs asking whether she's a good 'draw-er'

Where else would you keep them? But I call it the top drawer.

Some people add the extra R in the middle and keep their underwear in a knicker drawrer.

I knew I would be traditional middle class and of course I am!

I only know what a meat draw is because my DS goes to the pub with his water polo mates on a Friday night when there is such a draw, which he has, on several occasions, won!

So do I ! I am always amused by the offers and requests on Freecycle for a "chest of draws" This happens more often than not.

Shock admission - I pronounce them both the same!

To pronounce it without the R you keep your lips in W position at the end of the word, and have your tongue further forward than if you are saying R

(vision of all you lot making kissy faces at the screen )

There is no R in draw, but in some areas it is common to pronounce W as Whrr.

How does the pronunciation of 'meat draw' differ from that of 'meat drawer'?

I got that right. Googled it to make sure. BUT it was not from personal experience, more by deduction.

It could have been from the likelihood that certain sections of the population would say "meat drawer" but that would be daft - wherever you store your meat it is not likely to be in a drawer (well, maybe in the freezer)

So it must be a raffle. Extra protein for the winner.

Does that make me working class for understanding the concept and the attraction of it, or middle class for having the education/logic to work it out?

Okay RobertJunior, someone has to ask. What is MEAT DRAW ?

RobertJunior - Once you have decided whether a person is a Northerner or Southerner, what use can be made of that information?
It is hardly a predictor of intelligence or education.

Petallus welcome back, a late reply to your post but I have been away. I described ticking 'unskilled working class' as stupid because all the other demographic information I had given them indicated this was not true. It was not a judgement on people who fall into this group. If I had given demographic data that suggested that I fell into the unskilled working class group I would have ticked 'aristocratic'.

What I objected to was the stupidity of the whole question. The questionnaire had already asked questions on age, gender, occupation, income and savings (it was a questionnaire about attitudes to money). There was no need for a question on class, least of all one that subdivided people into so many groups. Faced with a stupid question I chose an answer that conflicted most with the data I had already given, I could also have ticked 'aristocratic' but this smacked of personal agrandisation. I felt more comfortable ticking 'unskilled working class'.

Some of the richest and most successful people come from very deprived background - as it makes them so resilient and determined.

I know many people who come from very privileged backgrounds who don't do well at all, as expectations are too high and they constantly feel that they are a disappointment. Three of my close friends were in that situations, 2 had miserable lives as (rich) alcoholics and died in awful circumstances, 1 had a huge nervous breakdown when his parents died when he realised he lived the lives they wanted - and not the one he dreamt of.

I do feel very sorry for the children of famous or successful people, as even if they do very well, people will always say 's/he wouldn't have done so well if it was not for mum/dad' etc. Being the son or daughter of someone very successful can be a real ordeal, as they have to fight even harder in some ways.

I know what it is because I can google

And I've read about it in a book.