What is the purpose of prison.

Yes, petallus you are right, and again I learn not to post in anger. I should know by now that I will regret it immediately.

Apologies.

Greatnan of course not you.

Will now leave this thread alone.

I am leaving this thread. I find the nastiness and also the patronizing too unpleasant to participate.

Yes I agree with greatnan that there is something wrong with our prison system. Especially I did not like the extreme sentences handed out to some rioters from last Summer; in contrast very wealthy people only get a caution for drug smuggling.

Incidentally Ariadne I don't think superior education should be used as a weapon against other posters, even if we don't like their views.

I am the OP, but I don't think Ariadne was referring to me!
It is clear that many people agree with me that there is something wrong with a system that incarcerates so many of its citizens and is sometimes manifestly unfair. (6 months for stealing a bottle of water?)
Perhaps the cogent arguments put forward from our members with relevant experience have helped to alter the opinions of more open-minded members.
I am probably not going to bother commenting any further on posts from people who are either simply out to cause dissension, or too entrenched in their right-wing views to reply sensibly to any points made.

Greatnan said:
It is easy to feel smug if you have had a loving, stable home, a decent education (even if you had to work hard to achieve it later on in life) and have a reasonable sense of self worth.

I agree with this. Many of us here had stable families, or have the inner strength and intelligence to rise above adversity. However bright we are though, most of us still find it hard to understand violence and other criminal activities. We also find it hard to understand drug abuse and drug use in general.

I read a lot, and once read an obituary of a drug user by his sister. Drug use had kept him alive longer than otherwise, because he had been a victim of childhood sexual abuse by a priest, and had dreadful mental issues. In the end he suicided when could no longer get the drugs he needed to blank out his thoughts. This is the other side of drug abuse.

It is clear here in Australia that drugs are rife in prisons. My former next door neighbour was a heroin addict: he got hooked in prison when he could not get the cannabis he was used to.

Nothing is simple, and I reckon we can't generalise about prisons because they are all different.

As for me, I'd like to see the punishment fit the crime - with or without prison.

Ariadne

Really, this is very silly. I do not think we need to give our CVs as evidence of our experience. Methinks the OP doth protest too much.

If my request, couched in clear, unambiguous and relatively courteous terms is "quaint" then we are clearly dealing with someone incapable of perception or the requisite intellectual rigour to cope with it. And yes, that will probably be construed as an insult, but it is at least a well punctuated and grammatical one.

Good night.

Yes , perhaps you would like to admit you were wrong about intimate body searches - or are you saying the BMA is lying? Throwing around insults is hardly a mature way of taking part in debate.

You don't address what has actually been said, though, do you?

Having spent over30 years working in and governing prisons I think that I'm in a better position to state what goes on in prisons than most of the deluded and prejudiced contributors to this thread. Feel free to continue with the nonsense- and note that pointing out that nonsense is nonsense isn't rude (how quaint a comment was that) it's merely telling the truth.

It is not up to prison officers to teach prisoners to read and write. However there are education programmes in prisons.
'Soon after arriving at prison, a prisoner talks to the prison education staff about courses and training. The staff assess the prisoner's current knowledge and skills.'
www.direct.gov.uk/en/crimejusticeandthelaw/sentencingprisonandprobation/goingtoprison/dg_196222

Presumably the prisoners themselves have to be suitably motivated to take advantage of these opportunities.

I do think that, if you want a debate and not an opportunity to be offensive, itsalldoomandgloom then you should, if you are able to, attempt to present reasoned, lucid, and calm arguments, and not descend to personal insults. Unless, of course, that (to insult) is your intent; which I suspect it is.

How rude you are itsalldoomandgloom. I speak as someone who has worked in several prisons. The only body cavity I have mentioned being searched by prison officers is the mouth, and I know from personal experience that this happens on a daily basis in most prisons. Other body cavities can be searched by medical officers - prison officers can only do intimate strip searches and if they are aware something has been concealed, the prisoner is either kept under observation until it reappears, or if there is a danger to the prisoner, medical assistance is sought. There is now some sort of appliance that can detect hidden objects in body cavities and it is being trialed in a few UK prisons. There is always overriding permission to search a body cavity to save a prisoner's life, but prisons do have to follow the protocol laid out by the Health and Home Office Departments.

I have read every post with interest, and also the reply to that question.

Itsall doom.....you are not only discourteous and in breach of forum etiquette, you are wrong. Look at the BMA website where they give guidance to health professionals asked to carry out intimate body searches.
Your style is strangely similar to that of another recent member........
Have you read wheni'm64's posts giving details of her experience in this field?

Greatnan - read what Pammygran wrote "Love to ask ex prison officers..why oh why do they not teach prisoners to read & write?.."

More nonsense from Whenim64. Searching body cavities is not permitted in prisons in England and Wales. Speak to someone who has worked in prisons if you are willing to check the facts.

Statistics can be interpreted in so many different ways. It is true that the numbers of black men having their convictions overturned could point to them being more likely to be wrongly convicted in the first place. It could also be that wrongful convictions of black men are more likely to be examined and overturned than wrongful convictions of white men (racism of a different kind).

Boys in high crime areas join gangs because they are scared and lonely. Setting domestic violence aside, I believe these young men are most likely to be victims of crime.
(not daily mail readers in villages and suburbs!)

"Joining criminal gangs is just what they do" - apart, of course, from the huge majority of black boys who don't!

when
Your post about corrupt prison officers, I totally agree with you.!

The number of black men acquitted, released on appeal, have their convictions overturned is testimony to the racism that got them into prison, and the reason why police, probation and prisons have their statistics on offending/convictions analysed by external researchers and the government research deartments, so areas for intervention can be identified for tackling racism. Even so, getting the stats back from the Home Office and Ministry of Justice is like trying to pin jelly down! Showing where the racist policies and practices occur is highly embarrassing, and they like to release the stats when there is something more compelling in the headlines.

Nevertheless, I think itsalldoomandgloom needs to read some of the very informed and educated professional comments made in this thread before adopting his/ her patronising attitude.

How do you know it is being 'assumed' that black men commit more crimes, Greatnan? How do you know that they don't? Perhaps they do - would that be because they're all disadvantaged from birth and it isn't their fault?
One can make excuses for every criminal, but does that mean no one should go to prison unless they're a mass-murderer?

Yes, no incentive to detox, so many do a five or seven day detox in the community and end up back at square one, despite best efforts of some very knowledgeable GPs and drug teams.