Should we insist that immigrants speak our language?

As I've said before, some people just can't manage to learn another language. My very intelligent Mum, then in her 60s, could not manage French when my sister moved to Paris.

Some older immigrants/refugees are not even literate in their own language, and learning another from scratch is just beyond them.

Some people have an aptitude for languages, some just manage to muddle though, and some simply can't do it. I have an aptitude for languages, so when I want to have empathy with those who are the opposite, I just think about the struggles I had at school in maths and physics. It was the stuff of nightmares. I was allowed to drop physics and substitute German. Phew!! As for maths - I managed to scrape through my O level with a minimum pass, after loads of tutoring from my very mathematical brother - who struggled with languages.

We are all different.

I have to say that I do not like the tone of the title of this thread. If we 'insist' that immigrants learn English, what sanctions are proposed for those who don't/can't?

Goldengirl - do you not think that somebody who has left their home, their country, their culture and probably most of their family might be somewhat traumatised? Why do you think immigrants don't contribute? As far as I can see, hospitals, care homes and airports would collapse without immigrant labour, either first or second generation.
You obviously have an ear for languages and have had the opportunity to learn several - good for you. Many people do not share your talent and, as has been said, may find it very difficult to access English lessons.
I speak as an immigrant into France, who has been met with nothing but kindness and tolerance of my less-than-perfect French. I would like to think immigrants to Britain are treated with equal compassion and helpfulness.

I may have missed a point here -possibly several, as I have just skimmed through this thread, but I think the problem lies in the title -"insist" . Should it not read "Should we (not) give immigrants every possible help to learn to speak the language of their host country?"
If people refuse to even try (cf old-style colonial Brits in the days of Empah)then citizenship may be withheld. I think the best example of integration is the USA where everybody was an immigrant once and there is a glorious patchwork of culture, linguistic idiom and history united by a common identity.

When I was working full time I visited many countries and made a point of being able to at least say a few words in the language - hallo, goodbye, how are you, where are the toilets, please may I have....., thank you etc etc.
I used to be fairly fluent in French [I taught it for a bit] and could get by in Spanish and German but unfortunately if you don't use it you lose it. I can still read bits in French and Spanish but alas I would need a long revision course to get me up to speed.
I'm in the throes of learning Welsh via the BBC; it's excellent - and free. There may be similar English courses. Of course one has to have a PC and be a little bit enterprising rather than waiting for it to happen spontaneously. My belief - and it's what I've also found in life - if you want something in life you have to make the effort. Sitting in a heap doesn't get you very far.

I find most people who expect immigrants to learn English don't speak any foreign language at all themselves. It takes years to learn enough to carry out a decent conversation. Europeans speak English but it didn't fly to them in a dream. They slogged at it at school for up to 8 years.

As to the immigrants there has to be good basic teaching to teach them just enough to get through the day and to know where their bus or train is going to.
As far as I can see there are no plans for this kind of teaching nor any funding. I could teach them but am now too tired even at the thought of it.

I know from my brother who lives in Germany that all those from Spain or Greece who had the good luck to speak some German have now got jobs there. They are short of people for engineering jobs. We should be looking that our children learn some sort of foreign language, as the second foreign language is much easier and who knows where future prosperity lies. Not necessarily in the English speaking world

YOu might find there was a catch 22 - lack of opportunities provided to learn English. And if there are opportunities it might be difficult for people to get to them. Or even find out about them, if they don't speak English.
I just searched on ESOL classes in my local area, spread across the city. There are a few run by the local authority, £180 for a short course - which is not going to get you very far - 12 classes. To track these down on the internet, without knowing that you should search on ESOL is not easy. Then you are asked to phone for an assessment!

I can understand that people from war torn zones may be traumatised and need special help but those from poor areas of the world coming over here have little excuse not to learn our language; after all children learn to speak a language. OK it's certainly harder for adults but an effort should be made if they wish to live here and make use of our services. Why do they come if they're not prepared to contribute?

Here in Switzerland, and in France, Spain and Tuscany, etc, there are 1000s of Brits who have lived here for yonks and barely speak a few words of the local language. On the expat Forums the main questions seem to be 'where can I find a plumber, a doctor, a vet, a solicitor, a carpenter, a hairdresser, etc, etc, etc, who speaks English?'.

My take on this as that it is very basic courtesy and respect to make the effort to learn basic communication in the language of a country you've chosen to live in. And of course it makes all the difference when it comes to good relationships with neighbours, tradesmen, local authorities, hospitals, and so on. I cannot fathom how anybody would go and live abroad and not make that effort. Many rich British expats here live in a bubble and a parallel society, which puts locals backs up and also mean that they pass by so many wonderful opportunities. Many ask on an expat Forum where they can find a job where they only speak English, for Degrees, MBAs and PHDs in English, etc.

At least many of the very poor immigrants who come from war torn zones and very poor areas of the world have an excuse - as many have not benefited from a good education. Many of the BAngladeshi parents where I used to teach couldn't read or right and spoke only Silhetti - which is a dialect of Bengali.

Message deleted by Gransnet.

jings, a further thought for your consideration: councils have to publicise good stuff they do too if they want to be voted in again. That's how democracy works.

Was just going to say thank you for telling us, bigmomma, when GN crashed on me. I can feel another plea to Tech coming on.

No. No ulterior motive. Nothing to laud them about either.

They probably publicised it because people all over the country are genuinely concerned for the child's welfare, and want to know what's going to be done for her and her family. There doesn't have to be an ulterior motive!

Charities have to publicise to keep on getting money.

Councils should be expected to spend taxes sensibly, as, in this case, they are.

Greatnan Sound sense. ditto

jinglgrumptastic strikes again.

No worse than all the boasting charities do when you think about it.

Anyway, people want to know.

Pathetic that they even felt the need to publicise that fact.

that's alright then.

Good!

According to the local paper of the area in which this unfortunate child lives with her family, the local authority has announced that it will do all it can to provide suitably adapted housing etc. to make the little girl's life as easy as possible.

Well, you know I did.

The life of an immigrant has never been easy. Most don't emmingrate for themselves but for their families and this has almost always meant a better life for the next generations. Better than the one they had before. Look at America's story. We know about the Pilgim fathers but millions of Europeans left as well. Farm workers who lived in the cowshed with the cows in remote areas to name but one example. They are propbably wealthy families now in the US.

Immigrants always want to learn the language but host countries don't want to foot the bill of good tuition. I have taught immigrants enough that they can read where the bus is going to or phone 999 if there is a fire. They are often scared and shy and if working just worn out at the end of the day to take in the complexities of a new language.

I hope that this familie due to the publicity they have received can see a way through their problems. They will not have been ale to read GN so there is no danger that they can feel upset by what we have written about them. I didn't find it heartless but maybe others did.

It depends where they came from, jingle, and what quality of life they had there. At least the girls won't be murdered for going to school and they won't be picking food from the rubbish on tips.

Still, at least she will be able to speak the language.