Stephen Lawrence

I've retired now, but when I worked as a probation officer, there were several notorious cases being tried that professionals had lots of anecdotal evidence about, and we all knew about the guilt of these perpetrators who had murdered, attacked and abused. For us, the courts, police, lawyers etc. it was harrowing to watch the wheels of justice turning slowly, and there has been many a time when I have cried all the way home, after hearing the day's evidence and the defence attempts to get these criminals off, especially when the victims' families were going through such torment. However, not one of those cases, fortunately, received a not guilty verdict. I stick to these memories and trust that the killers of Stephen Lawrence will be convicted.

Watching tonight's news, I am horribly afraid they may get away with it on a technicality..... I still remember them swaggering around after a previous court case. Innocent until -proven- guilty fine but their very demeanor, spitting and snarling shows they have no respect for the law or those who attempt to uphold it.
Not very well put..... but, after all this time, I still feel angry!

I agree with you jingl. We have watched these men boasting about their offences over the years and they have thought themselves immune. Other offenders have been so disgusted by their behaviour that they have informed on them to the authorities time and again. Justice has to be seen to be done before they are finally convicted, and I believe that the good majority should maintain their standards and show that we do not sink to their level. All of us who do our bit to eradicate racism will breathe a sigh of relief when the trial is finished, I hope, but we know there are still others who have not been brought to trial.

Oh FGS! Everyone knows they are guilty. At the time it happened, I, like many others, hated them. I still hate them. If that reflects badly on me, so be it.

Petallus has said what I would say.

Sorry I meant Jingl

Jingle for me it's a question of self-respect. How I behave reflects back on how I feel about myself. Why should I be dragged down to the level of the thug in the dock (though strictly speaking if they haven't yet been found guilty we probably shouldn't call them thugs).

Carol, "We live in a society where respectful behaviour should be modelled, otherwise abusive and aggressive language is perpetuated."

Who are we supposed to show this respectful behaviour to? The thugs in the dock?

FlicketyB I agree with everything you'e said there. Whenever I see those scenes on tv where people suspected of notorious crimes (sometimes children) are being brought out of prison in a van and a crowd surges forward spitting and screaming and banging, I don't know who I feel more despairing about, those inside the van or outside.

jingl I'm not into weird sociologists' theories either

I would vehemently deny that I share any emotions with the murderers of Stephen Lawrence. There was no evidence against Chris Jeffries - there is ample evidence against this pair (and they would have been convicted very quickly had it not been for corruption).

The men in the dock are innocent until proved guilty and some of the comments here seem to express the same emotions, but not, I emphasise not, the prejudices of those now accused of the murder of Stephen Lawrence.

Who cannot feel for Stephen's parents or indeed other parents desperate for justice for their murdered children and of course one has strong feelings when murders like this occur but the same feelings were generated by the murder of Joanna Yeates and this led to the vilification of her landlord, Chris Jeffries, when he was arrested and held for questioning for the murder. In fact he was entirely innocent. He can sue papers and television companies for libel but the vile things that were said about him in ordinary conversations and on blogs will hang in the air forever. The mental damage it has done to him cannot be cured by libel damages.

That last bit was to Carol.

petallus - "coerced"?! I don't think so. Google it.

I appreciate you don't like the word (?!) b-----s.

I do, in this context.

And I am not into weird sociologists' theories.

I understand where you're coming from Petallus. Using abusive words to describe racists and murderers is unnecessary. We live in a society where respectful behaviour should be modelled, otherwise abusive and aggressive language is perpetuated. There's a theory in the management of racist offenders that such horrendous crimes are one end of a continuum that begins with murmurs about people who don't fit in with 'us' and it grows into critisism, racist jokes and slurs, outright discrimination, overt prejudice, attacks and so on.....

I am very much against racism and murder, of course. And I don't mind having a discussion about it. I just don't want to start using certain terminology. I can understand people getting very angry about the awfulness of what happened to Stephen Lawrence and his family though.

Agree petallus . But I do think there are still quite a lot of people in this country with racist views- I know of one or two in my own family, and they appear to be, in every other way normal empathetic caring people. I have a Nigerian daughter in law, and my daughter's children have a Jamaican father, I adore all of them and am fiercely protective. However there are two family members I no longer see because of their views, I just do not understand where they are coming from.Seb Blatter is a disgrace.

I hate expressions like b------s and racist scum. Also don't like being coerced into joining a thread. I do hope justice is finally done though.

I was reading that thread on Mumsnet where it was said that many older people were casually racist, but thank goodness it does not apply here!
My daughter had a real problem with her FIL who was bigoted about so many things. She had learnt to bite her lip, but she apologised for not inviting me to some social occasions because she knew I would have waded in!

Sep Blather

Carol absolutely!

Seb Blatter should have been trounced months ago. To dismiss an allegation of racism by suggesting a handshake will sort it out, after millions of people have been waiting to find out if there was any foundation to this confrontation with the England captain, is tantamount to condoning racism across the board.

Caught up with newspapers online!
Talking Racist, what do you think of Seb Blatter's latest pronouncement? He really ought to be replaced!

No, the newspapers are having a field day giving details of the new evidence - hairs and blood on the suspects clothing.
The Lawrences were very badly advised to bring a private prosecution against the advice of the DPP - if the law on double jeopardy had not been changed the racist scum would be untouchable.

Jingle Absolutely agree with what you say, sadly have not watched much news for a while but while use jolly old Google to catch up! Or will it go quiet while the trial is on?