Diary of a benefit claimant.

Germanshepherdsmum

Is there really a difference between ‘failed to get a job’ and ‘did not succeed in getting a job’ SD? No. Only in your mind.

There is a difference in the mindset that uses one and not the other GSM.

If today I did better than yesterday when I did better than the day before I am moving towards success. If you tell someone that the same "yesterday" was a failure and the day before was an even worse failure, you will talk them into failure.

If you want people to move into work I don't think continually telling them they have failed will help you achieve that goal. You will just end up with people feeling very flattened by what they might consider as less than helpful input.

If you are thinking of doing another degree may I suggest one in Organisational Behavior?

StarDreamer

Germanshepherdsmum

Is there really a difference between ‘failed to get a job’ and ‘did not succeed in getting a job’ SD? No. Only in your mind.

In my opinion there is a big difference, because the person may not have got the job through no fault of his or her own, there was one job, many applicants, most applicants did not get the job. The person may have done everything he or she could to try to get the job, but did not get it.

So what? It's not relevant to the assessment.

StarDreamer

FarNorth

growstuff

Don't give more information than what is required.

Answering 'Yes' to a question like 'Can you stand up from a chair?' will get you marked down as perfectly able in that regard.
You have to make sure to explain any problems involved with doing that.

For such a question, please avoid saying,

Yes, but only with great difficulty.

as it includes the word "Yes"

The answer

Only with great difficulty.

would be better.

Also, if anybody demands "Answer yes or no" or asks pleasantly "You need to answer yes or no" then as far as I am aware nobody has any right to restrict the way you answer, so even if "the computer" needs a yes or no answer then please remember that a computer program is only a system for conversing through time with the person who programmed it.

So a statement that "the computer" needs a yes or no answer is not correct, the computer is just a machine, the yes or no answer is what is being required by the person who programmed the computer.

Go back to the descriptors and decide which one suits you best.

If you can't get out of a chair without help from somebody, says so. However, don't then get out of your chair in front of the assessor (I'm sure you wouldn't). Don't lie, but don't gloss over the truth. It's not correct that a yes/no answer is required - look at the descriptors and decide which one suits you.

SD, if I find the minutiae of how you think a question should be answered stressful so I cannot imagine you are being at all helpful to MissA. Asking her to remember these small details is really heaping the pressure on her and it will not be you who is asking the questions or evaluating the replies.

Germanshepherdsmum

Is there really a difference between ‘failed to get a job’ and ‘did not succeed in getting a job’ SD? No. Only in your mind.

In my opinion there is a big difference, because the person may not have got the job through no fault of his or her own, there was one job, many applicants, most applicants did not get the job. The person may have done everything he or she could to try to get the job, but did not get it.

It's becoming rather difficult to see the wood for the trees on this thread.

MissA don't be eager to please.
Remember we're all with you, urging you to give the answers they need to be able to get through this process successfully.

FarNorth

growstuff

Don't give more information than what is required.

Answering 'Yes' to a question like 'Can you stand up from a chair?' will get you marked down as perfectly able in that regard.
You have to make sure to explain any problems involved with doing that.

For such a question, please avoid saying,

Yes, but only with great difficulty.

as it includes the word "Yes"

The answer

Only with great difficulty.

would be better.

Also, if anybody demands "Answer yes or no" or asks pleasantly "You need to answer yes or no" then as far as I am aware nobody has any right to restrict the way you answer, so even if "the computer" needs a yes or no answer then please remember that a computer program is only a system for conversing through time with the person who programmed it.

So a statement that "the computer" needs a yes or no answer is not correct, the computer is just a machine, the yes or no answer is what is being required by the person who programmed the computer.

Is there really a difference between ‘failed to get a job’ and ‘did not succeed in getting a job’ SD? No. Only in your mind.

StarDreamer

growstuff

MissAdventure You've probably seen something similar to this:

www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/default/files/FS1%20%20The%20ESA%20and%20UC%20Work%20Capability%20Assessment%20June21.pdf

Look through activity descriptors and decide how you would answer honestly before you go to the meeting, then stick to your guns and be prepared for casual trick questions.

Something which annoys me, and it could easily be fixed, but I fear that it won't be and that it is an entrenched attitude is the use of the words "fail", "failure", "failed" by DWP. For example "failed to get a job". Continual use of fail fail fail to people.

For example, in the document to which you linked.

> If you do not complete this form the DWP will automatically refuse or stop your ESA unless you show 'good cause' for failing to return it.

Instead of for failing to return it it could have had for not having returned it.

DWP is prejudiced as to why the form was not returned before even asking why it was not returned.

I like to think that this is a helpful thread.
For the most part, it most certainly is.

Let us rally round to be constructive on this particular occasion. Yes?

Please don’t be so negative SD. I have said before that we are trying to support MissA, not unnecessarily depress her further.

StarDreamer, what you say may be true, but nonetheless a claim will be stopped if the form is not returned.
The DWP’s mission is to reduce the amount the government pays out in benefits, it seems.

growstuff

MissAdventure You've probably seen something similar to this:

www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/default/files/FS1%20%20The%20ESA%20and%20UC%20Work%20Capability%20Assessment%20June21.pdf

Look through activity descriptors and decide how you would answer honestly before you go to the meeting, then stick to your guns and be prepared for casual trick questions.

Something which annoys me, and it could easily be fixed, but I fear that it won't be and that it is an entrenched attitude is the use of the words "fail", "failure", "failed" by DWP. For example "failed to get a job". Continual use of fail fail fail to people.

For example, in the document to which you linked.

> If you do not complete this form the DWP will automatically refuse or stop your ESA unless you show 'good cause' for failing to return it.

Instead of for failing to return it it could have had for not having returned it.

DWP is prejudiced as to why the form was not returned before even asking why it was not returned.

Good advice FarNorth. I have always found that writing something down helps it to lodge in my mind.

growstuff

Don't give more information than what is required.

Answering 'Yes' to a question like 'Can you stand up from a chair?' will get you marked down as perfectly able in that regard.
You have to make sure to explain any problems involved with doing that.

Growstuff, that was a very useful link. Thank you.
The whole thing is daunting and complicated, but every word matters!

Give all details on exactly how you stand up / raise arm / whatever.

If you could do it once, then begin to have difficulty / get breathless / whatever, then say so.

Think ahead to what will be asked and note down all relevant details.
Even if you don't use what you've written, the act of doing it will have made it all clearer in your mind.

Perhaps you could have elucidated at the end of your post SD, to make the point clear to all.

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m afraid that rather went over my head.

I think the point is that you should stick to answering the question. The lawyer asked whether the lady knew what time it was not what the time was.

Exactly, growstuff I was preparing my post and had not seen your two recent posts before I posted.

Don't give more information than what is required.

It was simply that he caught her off guard and she provided more information than was necessary to answer the question that was asked. So he had reinforced the message to her to only answer the question that she had been asked.

The point being that when CJ was questioned at the formal hearing that she was due to attend that she should take care to only answer the question asked.

Someone asked me, "Do you know your National Insurance number?" and I replied "Yes."

So he then asked me "What is it please?"

So, I wrote my post to try to help MissAdventure.

I hope this post also helps MissAdventure

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m afraid that rather went over my head.

I think the point is that you should stick to answering the question. The lawyer asked whether the lady knew what time it was not what the time was.

MissAdventure You've probably seen something similar to this:

www.newcastle.gov.uk/sites/default/files/FS1%20%20The%20ESA%20and%20UC%20Work%20Capability%20Assessment%20June21.pdf

Look through activity descriptors and decide how you would answer honestly before you go to the meeting, then stick to your guns and be prepared for casual trick questions.

I’m afraid that rather went over my head.

There was a television drama called "The West Wing" about how the White House in the USA was supposedly run, but with a fictional administrarion with a fictional President.

In one episode The President's press secretary, or maybe Chief of Staff by that time, a lady known as "CJ" was being advised by a lawyer before her forthcoming appearance before some hearing or similar about how to respond to questions.

As the meeting was about to close, he casually asked her "Do you know what time it is?"

She, a bit irritated, looked up at the clock on the wall and exclaimed "It's a quarter to twelve."

The lawyer said "Shall we try that again. Do you know what time it is?"

She quietly said "Yes."

The episode finished.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_West_Wing

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Cregg

Thank you all,
Every single thing everyone has posted has been a huge help (and still is!)
I just need to learn to help myself by keeping my mouth from running away from me; joking, being chatty and nice and pleasant and potentially "dropping myself in it".