Does anyone know anything about the new state pension changes?

If the Tories win in 2015 their plan to end National Insurance Fund and merge it with Income Tax, would blur how much money is in the pot for state pensions.

Just calling the merged tax an Earnings Tax, when Income tax only brings in 26p in the pound of tax from people. Stealth taxes are 75 per cent of all tax from people, in or out of work and however long we live.

As Tories love to cut Income Tax, then the money would decrease to pay for the state pension, already about the lowest in the developed world.

All parties are pretty much the same, believing the state pension is a benefit and not a paid for pension from the 12 percent of NI contributions over a lifetime in work, or from the 75 per cent of stealth taxes, that means the poorest have a 90 per cent tax rate.

This was reported in The Independent newspaper's front page on Monday 30 June 2014.

An article headed 'Radical Tory tax plan spells end of national insurance,
that made not one mention that without NI credits the state pension received is very small indeed,
but from 2016 is zero food money
with the Flat Rate Pension for those born:
All women born on or after 6 April 1953 and
every man born on or after 6 April 1951

This effects people who only now have realised that if each job is 14 hours a week / less than about £109 per week, (NI is reckoned on each job, unlike tax allowance on all jobs merged together)
they have not been paying National Insurance contributions.

And housewives - nil state pension from husband's contributions - 60 per cent state pension. Gone for new claimants from 2016.

Widows and divorcees also lose any state pension from husband's contributions as new claimants from 2016.

This despite husbands having paid far more than 44 years as was the old amount of contributions for full state pension. More like half a century.

So a great many poorest people will get no state pension at all if born on or after the above dates.

When factor in, that agencies are beginning not to give out vouchers to food banks to those losing benefit, which happens to the over 60s, not listed by government in unemployment statistics even despite raised retirement age, then the future is very frightening indeed.

FLAT RATE PENSION LESS FOR MOST AND FOR WALES
Welsh people: Some 84,000 people in Wales are receiving a pension higher than the level proposed by the Government, according to the Labour party. It says people entitled to such pensions stand to lose at least £10 a week.

Also remember that SERPs and State Second Pension are abolished in 2016, so no triple lock guarantee to annual rises, but also pensioners will get less from those additional pensioners from 2016.

Pensioners with state pension and pension credit already get more than the flat rate, which only 30 per cent will get anyway with the loss of SERPs and S2P.

The Institute of Fiscal Studies in its paper
'A single-tier pension: what does it really mean?
is the source of:
70 per cent will not receive the full flat rate pension amount.
This was reported in The Independent article entitled
New Pension system will be a shock for millions
edition on Saturday 10 May 2014.

'Welsh pensioners also get more'! Do they? First I've heard of it...

The state pension changes from 2016 mean you cannot make up NI credits from then (Flat Rate Pension).

New claimants lose Pension Credit.

The additional pension of SERPS and State Second Pension also end from 2016, so no guaranteed annual rises from that.

Council workers were all taken out of SERPs, so that means any workers that ended that will not get the full Flat Rate.

Housewives will not be able to claim on their husband's state pension from 2016, their 60 per cent state pension.

Widows will not inherit husband's state pension from 2016.

Pension change no state pension at all to the lowest waged / 14 hours a week in each job (NI credits accrue separately unlike tax allowance) or less than 10 years NI credit.

Divorcees from 2016 will not be able to claim on their husband's state pension NI contributions.

People turning 80 from April 2016 will not get the only state pension they will ever have, the Category D pension, which is about £67 now.

The Flat Rate Pension only gives the flat rate (less than current pensioners get in full state pension and pension credit now) to 30 per cent new claimants.

Current Welsh pensioners already also get more, so they will get less.

Those receiving works pension and getting benefit, get both taxed, even if together below basic tax allowance. So that means any state pension you will get in future as well.

You can stay in your job or retire and find further work, and receive your state pension payout.

My petition on 38 Degrees is at, with more information in the petiton and below in the Why This is Important section:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/state-pension-at-60-now

Those on low works pensions, dwindling savings to pay house bills that will finish long before 66, also have to factor in that some agencies are now not giving out vouchers to food banks to those delayed or sanctioned benefits (Jobcentres notorious for these, who are referring people direct to food banks when no funds). The cheap food social supermarkets starting up, also do not sell food to anyone lost benefits.

Women MPs have kept the pension payout at 60 since 2012, with the words 'protected from reforms'.

Women's lost state pension at 60 from 2013, is going as an 11 per cent pay rise for MPs in 2015.

With the rise from 65 to 66 for men and for women from 60 to 66, lose on average £35,000 in payout for 7 years, which is obviously food money to the bulk of the population.

The benefit system is a minefield and sanctions and delays can be for months, and up to 3 years.

The parent generation (already in receipt of pension) to us women turning 60 since 2013 and 65 for men, might care to also sign my petition, to help their children losing state pension payout.

Thje nation can afford it, you will see why on my petition
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/state-pension-at-60-now

The comment section also lists other petitions which effect you on 38 Degrees, to also sign, around pensions.

I have just read in the paper this morning that the new rules apply to those who retire after April 5th 2015.

Now my husband retires (gets state pension) in February 2015 - so does that mean I can have his married mans allowance or not? I dont retire until 2021 ( now , since I have to be 66 before I can retire). They are so unclear on this.

I have done the forecast , thanks.Thats how I know what the situation will be. I have a shortfall for the 10 years I spent working low pay and short hours in the 1980's and 90's and I didnt get the NI contributions.

I had hoped I might get the change to make them up. I cant, so no full new rate pension for me (and suspect many like me "retiring" under the new flat rate scheme). I say "retiring" but I am unlikely to still be working at 66 - my employers rules and H&S and insurance even though many would say that isnt legal.

MARIES

I have been looking at this thread but as I had no understanding of pensions I wouldn't post.

I did have a pension forecast about a year ago and I have just received my official notification, I get my pension in March. I will receive £147 odd and I must admit the way it was worked out went over my head, money for this, money for that, money made up here. It was however the same amount as the forecast so it is worth doing.

Exactly, Maries. They tell you to plan, then pull the rug out from under you.
I benefited as I retired at 60. My husband retired at 65, but then died 6 months later, so my state pension went up by nearly 100%. No amount of planning can prepare you for that. I'd rather have him back.
If we had done what most people do with his private pension pot, we would have taken out an annuity and I would have lost half the money.
As it is, I get the full amount until he would have been 70, then I can decide what to do then. But on my own this time.
I did not benefit because I retired just before the number of years went down to 30 from 39. Therefore my pension was less than it would have been if I had been born a year later. Now they have changed the qualifying years from 30 to 35, and that's within 4 years!

I read the article and the links durhamjan, but I think its wrong.

For a start I think my husband will more than likely be a "winner" in the long run even though he is due to retire before the changes to the new pension.

In fact I think ALL those due to retire before 2016 arelikely to be winners in the end. I think this whole idea is a government con trick.

I will be a loser despite being listed as a winner . I am female and retire under the new system and have a broken work record but I am not going to make the NI contributions for the full rate and I cannot pay back and I am not "protected" in anyway. So, I will end up losing.

I would have been a winner under the very old system ( one even my husband misses out on) as my husband would have got a married mans pension. That was what we always planned on all those years ago when I did not work. In fact that was what the DWP told me I should planon back in the 1980's and 1990's.

So, its plain rubbish I am afraid to say. I cant even plan as we are not being toldwhat my husbands situation is - and mine is unclear too. They can change everything again between now and 2021 (when I get to 66 and can officially retire).

www.theguardian.com/politics/privatisation

IDS is considering privatising the pension service in order to save money.
The same link will also give you winners and losers in the new system.

Has anyone heard more about this?

As far as I can work out I am not allowed to pay in anything under that so wellpublicised scheme of topping up NI. I am too young ,having been born in 1955.

But given what invictus has said I am wondering if its worth it anyway. I do not have a private pension as it happens but it seems to me that the government is justtrying to stop pensions , end of ( and maybe it doesnt want to pay the £140 new rate because in fact it will cost far too much?).

My Husband is due to retire in Feb 2015, so he is on the downhill now. I am gathering Invictus's comment will not apply to him and he will get the old rate pension (and keep his private one which is already in payment as he had to retire at 60 - made redundant really but they preferred to call it "early retirement" as they forced out all the older long serving staff).

But, will his pension(s) be affecting anything I may or may not get? Will the fact he has provision in his work pension for a widows pension for me if he dies mean I cant have the state pension?
Its a long way to 2021.

Lots of things could get affected here.

I think we do need an expert here.

I think it is plain to see that whatever changes are made to pension entitlement those changes will always result in a nett benefit to the treasury therefore by definition a nett loss to pensioners. The rhetoric and terminological inexactitudes, or lies if you prefer, we are bombarded with will fool some of the people some of the time but not all of us all of the time. There is of course the matter of SERPS which, for some of us, is a substancial proportion of our pension and that coupled with Graduated Retirement benefit can almost equal the basic state pension. I know mine is only £21 short of double the basic rate currently and there must be those with greater contributions than me. It is however a disgrace that our pensioners are paid relatively little of the sums they have paid in as we must never forget that in the case of NI contributions our employers have also paid in on our behalf. We currently pay 12% and the employer 13.8% assuming staff below the upper earnings threshold, if over that 2% is taken from the employee for earnings over the threshold. That's a lot of money paid in over the years so I ask those in the treasury spinning me hard luck stories to spare me and likewise spare themselves the embarrassment of trying to defend the indefencible. Is it not enough that we have the lowest pension rates in the whole of the EU.

ninny and fnorman have to agree with everything you have said.
I had 37 years NI payments when reaching pension age but needed 39 at the time so missed out on about £8per week I think. It would have been much fairer to have lowered the years required but ensured that those who had the required number (which was then set at 30) even if of state pension age before 2010 had been given the full entitlement.
now they want us to pay £25K to increase our SERPs to get an extra $25 per week. I think not.

fnorman I agree it's a disgrace, also if you reach pension age before April 2016 you get a lower pension than if you were to retire after this date because then you would be entitled to the new state pension of £140.

I wish that 30 qualifying years was the rule for all. The current number of qualifying years needed for a full pension is different for people who reached State Pension age before 6 April 2010 than it is for those who reach State Pension age on or after 6 April 2010. This means that women born before 6 April 1950 usually need 39 qualifying years, and men born before 6 April 1945 usually need 44 qualifying years. Women and men born after those dates usually only need 30 qualifying years.

For example a man born at 5 minutes past midnight on 6 April 1945 with 30 qualifying years gets a 100% pension, but his twin brother born 10 minutes earlier with the same 30 qualifying years gets only 30/44, i.e. 86%, of the full pension.

I really do emapthise with you. The changes to the State Pension Law are unfair and unjust. Please sign and share this petition is you disapprove of these changes.

thanks
Anne

you.38degrees.org.uk/p/statepensionlaw

Exactly, although the changes to the State Pension Law will effect us all those women born on or after 6th April 1951 have been affected the most. They have suffereed 2 changes to their retirement age in the past few years.

Yet Mp's and Judges, who are within 10 years of normal pension age, were given transitional protection against the changes made to their pension scheme because (his a a quote from the MP's Pension reform document) :-

"This protection strives to be fair to members who are close to their expected retirement age and are less able to change their plans than younger members".

So it's one rule for them and one for us. It is discrimination.

If you disapprove of the changes to the State Pension Law please sign and share this petition. Thanks

thanks
Anne

Sorry - the over 80 pension should say is £66 with an age addition of £0.25 whatever that means. The sleeping pill is kicking in so time I went up.

As far as I can make out pension based on husband's, wife's or civil partners contributions is £66 per week. Basic full entitlement pension based on your own or late spouse's or late civil partner's contributions is £110.15 per week. The over 80 pension which is paid if you receive no state pension or a state pension of less than £66 per week at age 80 as long as residency conditions are met. If you reach state pension age after 5 April 2013 and have paid graduated contributions for every £7.50 paid you get £0.1279.
All that is from page 16 of DWP's Benefit and pension rates booklet dated April 2013. I will not pretend to know what it all means although much of it is self explanetory but I am 65 and receive basic state pension, additional state pension (SERPS) and graduated retirement benefit. I did not opt out of anything so kept full entitlement for the years I was working.
As far as I remember the interest payable on a deferred pension is around 1% every 5 weeks so in the region of 11% per annum although I cannot see any mention of it in the DWP booklet which incidentally was picked up from a Jobcentreplus office. Hope that helps rather than confuses.

I agree, ps, although I am not sure if deferring mine for a year or two would have helped. I was in the group that could retire at 60 but only got a full pension if I had paid in for 39 years. The year after I retired it changed to 30 years, but we did not know it at the time.
However, my husband retired at 65 and died after he had received his state pension for 6 months. My state pension then went up by £50 a week because of his contributions. Does that still happen now pensions are on individual contributions?

As one who wouldn't trust a politician (of any pursuasion) as far as I could throw them I decided that the best option (for me) was to draw my state pension as soon as humanly possible even though my brain told me I should defer it for a year or three if only to accrue the very generous interest rate applied which is far in excess of any available commercially in on or offshore investments.
I certainly do not believe that the new 30 year contribution rule will remain applicable for ever, I do believe it will increase back to somewhere near it was (39 years for women & 44 years for men) and the single tier pension proposed will certainly benefit some but will certainly be a detriment to many especially those with a decent serps and Graduated Pension entitlement. In my case I estimated a £50 per week loss if it was to be applied to any pension not yet in payment. My mistrust of any rhetoric to the contrary made my decision easy. I would imagine contributions will increase and benefits will reduce (in real terms) and the date at which the pension will become payable will certainly increase. No good news at all I'm afraid, at least not in my mind and I do believe pensionable age will increase to 70 and even 72 if pension spending increases as it has. I wish I could see it any other way but I can't. It's just a matter of time I feel.

Hi invictus

I don't know if you are still looking at this but I have been told you will only qualify for a £148 pension if you have been a member of a contracted in scheme.
I was in serps for part of my working life and now get about £135 a week state pension plus my works pension.
Half way through my working life we were taken out of SERPS and given a better employers pension from that date.
According to the circular overall we would get the same pension if we remained in serps but pay less in during our working lives.
I was however retired early and got a job which lasted 5 years and I was back in serps for that time and I was credited with contributions when I was a carer. I am not sure if that affected the serps element.

Mary

My birthday's Sept '54 and I was told I'll get my pension in the month before my 66th birthday! Not happy!

I was born 02/09/1953 and qualify for my state pension at 64 years and 2 months. As Ana said, they have to stagger the entitlement dates somehow, but it's the obvious lack of fairness that seems questionable.

As somebody suggested, why not call the DWP people in Newcastle? They were very helpful to me, having only paid married woman's contribution, but i asked them for my 'paid up pension'. They sent me a form for all my own and my husband's details (we were divorced years before) and on the strength of his payments I now receive about £150 per week. It's worth asking!

So she'll be entitled to her state pension at 63. That makes sense to me, as she's a month younger than you. They have to stagger entitlement dates somehow, it's not going to follow on month by month...