GNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.
We have been looking for a bungalow in Surrey lately and got very frustrated with what we have observed being a trend.
Almost all of bungalows were built in the 1930-s and are quite small, typically around 65m2. They are in a really poor state and have not been updated for a few decades. Many show signs of utter neglect. Most of them have suspended floors, rising damp issues or damp and mould from leaky roofs and gutters. Doors and windows need changing, not to mention pink and avocado bathrooms and pine kitchens together with polystyrene tile ceilings. They have EPC of D or even E.
Whilst most of those faults and undesirable features are due to age, some are due to sheer neglect from the relatives of the elderly owners. We have seen plenty of probate properties still on the market a year later with dirty dishes still left in the stinking dishwasher, food left in the fridge and gone mouldy, kitchen units left dirty still full of contents.
The saddest one was a perfect in every sense bungalow, so well laid out and built, where the water butt leaked, stayed unnoticed for ages, created damp in the wall and eventually black mould took over the whole wall behind the built-in wardrobe. The doors were left open, and the mould spores disseminated all over the house, infecting every inch of surfaces, carpets and fabrics. This is how you get what is called a “sick building syndrome”. You will never get rid of that mould completely, the spores will make sure it comes back.
So on one hand, there is a real shortage of bungalows for the aging population, and on the other hand there are plenty of them but in such poor condition that nobody would buy them. Relatives overprice these bungalows in a hope to get a bigger inheritance, so the buildings sit empty for over a year getting musty, mouldy and accumulate problems – and depreciate to the point of becoming unsellable. Yet they do very little to make them sellable in the first place, like dealing with leaks and damp or at the very least giving these properties a good clean and empty the appliances.
It makes me so sad to watch some great houses going to waste instead of becoming cosy and loved homes. The only thing that could stop this madness would probably be the condition under which properties could be marketed – to be cleared, cleaned and issue free.
Some properties even got extended but we have seen so many extensions that were given little thought and resulted in convoluted layout, blocked light and fresh air and unusable or lost space.
I understand what you’re saying Elegran, but not for me, ever. I loathe the sight of the things. If it became absolutely necessary we would move to single storey living.
As said, good for her. My comment is not about rejecting aid- but having help with carrying stuff up and down said stairs. That is the dangerous bit.
Fleurpepper Just try telling her that - she would be horrified at the thought of employing someone to do part of her housework for her.
Excellent post Caravansera. That’s the reality for so many.
I will add that said aunt is nearly 90 and is the most fiercely independent woman I know. She too would have rather crawled up the stairs than admit that walking up them was slow and painful, and walking down when her balance was getting dodgy was downright dangerous. She had actually slipped and slid down several stairs, bruising her bottom and back and only saved from tripping forward to land face down at the foot of the stairs by keeping her grip on one banister - which resulted in a torn tendon in that shoulder which is still painful to use. Don't be too emphatic about rejecting a useful aid.
Elegran
Germanshepherdsmum
Am I the only one here who has a horror of stairlifts? I have arthritic knees and a bungalow may be necessary one day but I would rather crawl up the stairs if need be than have a stairlift (or an ordinary lift).
My aunt had a stairlift installed "just for carrying the washing upstairs" as she found it difficult to carry anything while holding on to both banister rails. She found it excellent for that. Then she started feeling unsafe going down the stairs, so she started riding down but still walking up. Now (about a year after getting the stairlift) she walks up when she feels like it, and rides up when she doesn't.
They don't make it impossible to use the stairs normally - the seat folds up out of the way when not in use, and it glides on an unobtrusive beam when it is needed.
Good for her. But in all honesty, employing someone a couple of hours a week to carry washing upstairs, and the like- would be a much better solution.
Germanshepherdsmum
Am I the only one here who has a horror of stairlifts? I have arthritic knees and a bungalow may be necessary one day but I would rather crawl up the stairs if need be than have a stairlift (or an ordinary lift).
Oh I wasn’t thinking of using it myself. I had visions of piling it up with clean laundry, cleaning stuff, books, snacks etc., and just waving it all off! 🤣🤣
Germanshepherdsmum
Am I the only one here who has a horror of stairlifts? I have arthritic knees and a bungalow may be necessary one day but I would rather crawl up the stairs if need be than have a stairlift (or an ordinary lift).
My aunt had a stairlift installed "just for carrying the washing upstairs" as she found it difficult to carry anything while holding on to both banister rails. She found it excellent for that. Then she started feeling unsafe going down the stairs, so she started riding down but still walking up. Now (about a year after getting the stairlift) she walks up when she feels like it, and rides up when she doesn't.
They don't make it impossible to use the stairs normally - the seat folds up out of the way when not in use, and it glides on an unobtrusive beam when it is needed.
The argument about the paucity of suitable accommodation for older people, or indeed anyone with impaired mobility, is nothing new. The free paper Mature Times carried a feature, it must be ten years ago now, about the failure of developers to build for older people. It argued this was causing a generational log jam in the property market. The McCarthy and Stone apartment model is expensive and doesn’t suit everyone. There’s little else apart from small independent pockets of development.
People age 60 and over make up 23% of the UK population, some 15 million people. Around 90% of people aged 60 and over have at least one chronic (incurable) health condition. Around 80% have two or more. These conditions may be manageable and not physically disabling but it is all part of the eventual decline that we have to face.
The shortage of suitable accommodation for older people is part of a national housing problem that should be but isn’t being addressed by central and local government. It isn’t just about the shortage of single-storey dwellings but about finding a way to live in older age where we can still have easy access to local facilities and services and the support of a community around us.
Building thousands of bungalows on out-of town developments rather than thousands of “executive” houses on out-of town developments isn’t the solution. Those places can be soulless ghost towns for most of the day with a marked lack of social infrastructure and community.
This subject interests me in the context of the work of the organisation Ageing Without Children (AWOC). On a social media site for grandparents, some members may not be familar with it. It began as an organisation campaigning for the needs of people who have not had children, either by choice or medical circumstance. It has since widened its brief to include older people who may have outlived their children or simply do not have the help and support of their children for any number of reasons. I am not personally involved with AWOC but take an interest in their work. 10% of people aged 60 or older do not have children. 20% of people aged 50 or older do not have children.
I see two/three core issues:
1. The scarcity of modest and affordable new builds in mixed communities and beyond the confines of the McCarthy and Stone model.
2. How to provide support for older people who wish to but don’t have the means to maintain their current homes to a reasonable level of repair. We need to do something about it because, frankly, where else are they (we) to live between that and the care home? I am not just talking about grants or other means of finance but the whole process of finding and engaging professional, trustworthy and affordable tradespeople, especially when there is nobody to help an elderly person who is alone. Around 1.5 million older people don’t have anybody to help them. (AgeUK and AWOC).
There’s a very real disconnect between the labour costs of even simple home maintenance and pension income. I’ve just been quoted over £400 (including parts) to replace a faulty toilet flush and a kitchen mixer tap, two jobs that will take about an hour in total. It’s all been costed, parts and labour. This is the firm who do other work for me and I trust. But the price is the equivalent of two week’s state pension at the full rate. Older pensioners won’t have that and may not have much in the way of supplementary income or savings. I also have a small bedroom that needs redecorating. I have a good decorator and will use him again but his labour is £200 a day. Decorating just one room will cost £800 - £1000, four or five week’s pension.
When people are grumbling about older people not maintaining their homes, I get rather irritable when the criticism comes from women who have husbands with practical skills. For the elderly widow (the sterotypical bungalow dweller) it’s a very different picture when small jobs that he once did or that you once did together are no longer possible. One might argue that we can learn the skills but I doubt many older women want to be tackling plumbing, carpentry, electrics or balancing on a ladder to paint a ceiling. It’s very easy to see why homes fall into disrepair but I don’t see anyone offering any practical solutions to address the core issues.
Well yes, I certainly hope never to have to have one. Here we have plenty of space, so we are more likely to put in an open lift.
Two knee replacements here- and surgeon told me the best way to ensure long life is to keep moving, including stairs. The last thing you want, is a mobility chair/scooter and a stair lift- if you are still able to move, even slowly. Going up and down stairs is great exercise.
Germanshepherdsmum
Am I the only one here who has a horror of stairlifts? I have arthritic knees and a bungalow may be necessary one day but I would rather crawl up the stairs if need be than have a stairlift (or an ordinary lift).
No, not the only one. However, I prefer knee replacements. 
Am I the only one here who has a horror of stairlifts? I have arthritic knees and a bungalow may be necessary one day but I would rather crawl up the stairs if need be than have a stairlift (or an ordinary lift).
If you do buy somewhere that is not as expensive as commuter-belt Surrey, please try not to keep on to the locals about how much better your social/cultural life was where you lived previously - yes, they do know that it was a lot more convenient to hop onto a train to Central London for the nightlife and the culture, but they also know the cost of that convenience, in money and in stress.
I was tempted to make an offer on a chalet bungalow but the lack of parking spaces at the front put me off.
It was in good repair and already had a stair lift with an up to date service record. I like to think I’m still a bit of a way off needing one but when the vendor asked if I would like it left in (I bet he had his fingers crossed) I said yes because at 74 (at the time) with a dodgy knee it seemed sensible.
Sadly the lack of parking was an issue I couldn’t ignore.
RusBun
Foxygloves
The essence of this thread is that there is not enough of this type of accommodation in good condition needed by a certain group of population
You omitted the word affordable - where something is in demand, that will always be reflected in prices .
The other imponderable in the complex issue of market forces, is turnover.
Many younger couples/families move several times- more children, desirability of schools, work, etc, but once a couple or person on their own moves into a bungalow as a retirement home, they tend to stay- for obvious reasons.Even most of the the 700K bungalows in Surrey need a complete renovation, and at that price I would not call them "affordable". You would need to spend another 200K to do them up, so you are looking close to a million. Not affordable for most and if you are not in great shape, you could not do it yourself to save money.
Indeed- so being a bit more flexible on location will make a big difference. You are looking at prime gold belt commuter area for City professionals, and there is a huge price attached to this.
Moving a bit further south, or into Sussex- could really help. But honestly, you will get much better value with a 2 or 3 bed house- semi, or terrassed- with a downstairs WC- and then fit a stairlift.
Friends sold a great 4 bed, 2 bathrooms house with wonderful large corner plot in the Midlands- and could barely afford a 2 bed bungalow just north of London, with tiny garden.
Germanshepherdsmum
That’s a lot Callistemon. Stamp duty is the biggest contributor to moving costs - £17.5k for the £600k bungalow OP was considering. Then estate agents, who almost always charge more than solicitors (I never could fathom that).
Stamp duty is higher in Wales than it is in England, that can add quite a bit to the total amount too. In Wales, the rate is 4%, compared to 3% in England and Northern Ireland
argymargy
Callistemon21
It costs about £40,000 to move before you start doing anything to a property.
Where did you pluck that figure from?! My move earlier this year (to a non-derelict bungalow) cost me less than £20k in total, including a range of surveys, full pack & move, stamp duty, solicitors for sale & purchase and estate agents. Mind you, it was not in Surrey...
Calistemon - I paid the EA less than the solicitor. EA fees are usually a percentage and they can be negotiated, whereas the solicitor was a fixed fee.
I didn't pluck that figure, we worked out a rough estimate, together with the Estate Agent, on a property we saw, together with the costs of selling ours.
This was based on a bungalow needing refurbishment (in our opinion) and not in the SE, but still nearer the figure quoted by the OP, but in this area.
Then refurbishment on top.
Have you considered that wonderful invention, the stairlift? You would have to admit to yourselves that you needed its help climbing the Everest that a flight of stairs has become, but you have already accepted that you need a home on one floor.
It means that you can consider homes with bedrooms upstairs (or with a livingroom upstairs and bedrooms on the ground floor - no need to stick to conventional layouts. A straight staircase with space at top and bottom for the seat to "park" out of the way is best, possibly after going round a corner. Do some research before buying, different firms have different schemes for maintenance, buying them back when no longer needed and so on.
RusBun
Germanshepherdsmum
So perhaps postpone a move until then unless he has a private pension?
How can you afford to retire if you still have a big mortgage to pay? I think it is hard to imagine for people outside SE that this could be the case, but this is what high property prices and expensive mortgages do. It is a different world here, everybody is stretched to the limits, including those in well paid professions, unless you are from the upper class. I used to live in Cheshire, had my own 3-bed semi and could comfortably pay a mortgage and bills on a single salary. But my DH was born in this area and does not want to move.
Selling your current house will bring in more than the new one will cost, if you buy it somewhere cheaper. That will bring down your mortgage
Wanting to stay where DH was brought up just isn't possible if you don't want to stay in your current home, and house prices have risen so far and so fast that you can't afford them unless he works until he drops dead in the office. If you want a retirement without stress, widen your net into other areas.
Perhaps when you took on that large mortgage you would have been better to consider how long it would take you to pay it off, and compared that with how keen you were to keep on working for that long?
Callistemon21
It costs about £40,000 to move before you start doing anything to a property.
Where did you pluck that figure from?! My move earlier this year (to a non-derelict bungalow) cost me less than £20k in total, including a range of surveys, full pack & move, stamp duty, solicitors for sale & purchase and estate agents. Mind you, it was not in Surrey...
Calistemon - I paid the EA less than the solicitor. EA fees are usually a percentage and they can be negotiated, whereas the solicitor was a fixed fee.
It boasted a conservatory, I think, which needed pulling down!
Or we thought it did 😁
Typical estate agent’s description! Did it ‘boast’ anything? 😁
We worked out a guesstimate on a bungalow which could have been suitable; that was before the total refurbishment which we thought was necessary, although the estate agent presented it to us as in wonderful condition. 😃
It was ok but very dated.
And surveyors of course, and mortgage arrangement fees and removals.
That’s a lot Callistemon. Stamp duty is the biggest contributor to moving costs - £17.5k for the £600k bungalow OP was considering. Then estate agents, who almost always charge more than solicitors (I never could fathom that).
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