Misuse of emergency ambulances

There's not enough funding for the NHS. I recently needed medical attention as I stopped being able to breathe and when I started again I was gasping , there was no way I could have got to a GP but it must be cheaper for them to have sent a doctor who could have diagnosed my chest infection and prescribed antibiotics. As it was I had a paramedic in a come out and he arranged a taxi to take me to hospital, which incidentally is cheaper than an ambulance. Just before she died my mother-in-law slipped out of bed and although we managed to get her back in bed using safe lifting she couldn't sit up and she was a bit breathless again a car paramedic turned up and decided she needed to be admitted to hospital so she organised an ambulance which she said would be a few hours, it was 3 days.

I own up, I have veen one of those usibg the anbulance service inappropriately. Last year, providing palliative caring for husband who had cancer and his mobility badky affect by pain I just could not get him up and to the toilet (approx 6 feet away). He was too big for me to sit up then hold to move. 7 am and could not think of anyone I could call on to help. Phoned 999 but explained situation asking if this was something they woukd help with or could they advise who would. Husband was becoming agitated. 10 mins later ambulance at door, team of 3, 1 paramedic included attended to husband. Paramedic even noticed I had quite a burn on my arm and checked it out too. Best ever toilet attendants. So so grateful. Tgey also said I should be receiving support from care/ charitable agencies. Explained they had been contacted but only provision in my area was local authority and they had a great problem trying to co-ordinate support. So whilst not really a medical emergency, I called upon their magnificent service.

I was so worried about misusing the ambulance over Christmas. I tried 111 several times but couldn't get through. So finally rang 999. Taken to hospital with flu, pneumonia and sepsis. Home now but it could have turned out so differently!

LtEve there really is no excuse for the swearing and abuse you receive, is there.

We do deal with too many mental health conditions that neither the ambulance service nor A&E are equipped to deal with but until mental health services are properly funded and organised this will continue.

It must be a difficult job and yes, looking round A&E recently during our long wait, some people did appear to need MH assessment but, as you say, the funding is just not there.

growstuff

SueDonim

My A&E medic dd also has to deal with people who are not admitted to hospital demanding to be taken home by ambulance. She said the number of people who have no friends, neighbours or family, money and no phone is astounding. The abuse she receives is appalling.

Do you work in a heavily populated urban area LtEve? My nearest A&E is over 14 miles away and the nearest alternate minor injuries unit is even further. There are millions of people who live in more rural areas than I do.

Our A&E is over 20 miles away and a Minor Injuries Unit about the same distance. Perhaps I mentioned previously that MIUs at smaller hospitals have all closed here.

We know someone who was told it would be an 8 hour wait for an ambulance although he had all the symptoms of another heart attack. His wife took him to A&E, it was then another 4 hour wait for a bed. It was the other week and did not happen on a strike day.

GagaJo

M0nica

GagaJo Surely, under the circumstances, someone should have offered to drive them to the hospital. On the other hand, if someone suffered further injury because a car was used instead that could lead to further problems.

The motorcyclists could also have been concussed, an injury that might not become apparent for several days. In this case I think an ambulance was neeeded.

We would have taken them but the police arrived after the ambulance. The father called the ambulance in between arguing with the car driver. I think the boy may have been hurt. At the very least, he was shaken up as anyone would be coming off a motorbike.

I was involved in a car accident four years ago (both cars were written off). It wasn't far from where I live and one of my neighbours saw what happened. The police arrived and took me home and a few minutes later my neighbour knocked on the door. He's a paramedic/ambulance driver and told me he thought I should go to A&E to get checked over. He even offered to take me. I decided against it because I felt OK at the time, but did I make the wrong decision if even a paramedic thought I should go to A&E? I wouldn't mind betting there are loads of people who don't seek medical treatment when they should.

SueDonim

My A&E medic dd also has to deal with people who are not admitted to hospital demanding to be taken home by ambulance. She said the number of people who have no friends, neighbours or family, money and no phone is astounding. The abuse she receives is appalling.

Do you work in a heavily populated urban area LtEve? My nearest A&E is over 14 miles away and the nearest alternate minor injuries unit is even further. There are millions of people who live in more rural areas than I do.

Ring 111 😲 I am still waiting for a medic to ring me back and my DH has been dead 15 months.

Actually GagaJo, were you were best not doing it, in case, in this litigious age you ended up sued for some injury tat as done to the victim as the result of your kindness.

M0nica

GagaJo Surely, under the circumstances, someone should have offered to drive them to the hospital. On the other hand, if someone suffered further injury because a car was used instead that could lead to further problems.

The motorcyclists could also have been concussed, an injury that might not become apparent for several days. In this case I think an ambulance was neeeded.

We would have taken them but the police arrived after the ambulance. The father called the ambulance in between arguing with the car driver. I think the boy may have been hurt. At the very least, he was shaken up as anyone would be coming off a motorbike.

A friend of mine spent weeks trying to see a GP about bowel problems. In the end she took a book to read and sat in A&E until someone could see her. She has now been referred for further investigation. She is the last person who would normally bother A&E but what's the alternative?

My A&E medic dd also has to deal with people who are not admitted to hospital demanding to be taken home by ambulance. She said the number of people who have no friends, neighbours or family, money and no phone is astounding. The abuse she receives is appalling.

Sadly people are not taking responsibility for themselves and their own anymore either.

I suspect a lot of people haven’t bothered to register with a GP in the first place. Young people and some ethnic minorities in particular. And why haven’t they called the well publicised 111?

Interesting post LtEve, thank you. I wonder how many of these people are at A&E because they have given up trying to get an appointment with their true Primary Care unit ie their GP. On a previous thread about this subject a GN member detailed the course of events which led to her DD having to attend A&E as a 'true' emergency due to her being unable to get either her GP or practice nurse to deal with what was originally 'just a splinter'. It is of course, inexcuseable for anyone to abuse any staff, but sometimes people must get frustrated when their fears about their health/their children's health is not dealt with, and when they feel they are being passed from one to another without solution.

What GSM said LtEve

LtEve, yes thank you for what you do. And to tell us what the reality is, day in, night out ...Too many people have just no idea!

Thanks LtEve for that and for what you do.

I'm not talking about broken bones, falls, heart attacks, strokes or indeed people who live 20 plus miles away from the nearest hospital, strangly enough, they rarely call us unless they really need us.

In my 12 hour shift as an experienced clinician in the control room yesterday, very few people live more than 5 miles away from one of 3 big hospitals and several minor injury/illness units. The calls I'm talking about are the blocked noses, short lived D&V in young and normally healthy adults, people who have had a particular condition for the last year that has not changed but decide that a Saturday afternoon is the time to get it 'checked out' by ringing 999. Many people know the words and phrases to use to enable them to get a resource and the risk of complaints and litigation is too great to risk my livlihood to refuse.They may not get taken to hospital but it still costs the NHS around £270 for a visit which does not involve a visit to hospital (it's around £350 including taking them to hospital) to say nothing of the time it wastes.
We do deal with too many mental health conditions that neither the ambulance service nor A&E are equipped to deal with but until mental health services are properly funded and organised this will continue.

I stand down around half of the calls I triage over the phone but we are no longer an emergency service (never have been actually, we are designated as an essential service) we are mainly a mobile primary care service. Oh and by the way, I am unfailingly polite and kind on the phone but yesterday alone, I got called a 'f**** c* and was threatened with being 'hunted down and stabbed'. None of this particularly distresses me, I'm a tough old bird but it does get rather wearing after a while.

Exactly Poppyred- a totally different scenario to a 'suspected' fracture.

and not 'talking sh**e. How extremely rude and uncouth, and to someone with a lifetime of experience, dedicated to a very difficult job. Honestly!?!

glammagran

Poppyred in 2006 I completely severed my humerus as a result of an elbow shunt following a riding accident. I was in absolute agony on the ground and passing out. The paramedics sent an air ambulance. No way could I have stood up let alone “caught a bus” for my “minor”injury in the middle of nowhere. You are talking sh**e.

Paramedics were sent out, they had no way of knowing whether you had more serious injuries- falling off a horse could have resulted in a head injury? Internal bleeding? - They did absolutely the right thing and got you to hospital as soon as possible for further checks.

Poppyred in 2006 I completely severed my humerus as a result of an elbow shunt following a riding accident. I was in absolute agony on the ground and passing out. The paramedics sent an air ambulance. No way could I have stood up let alone “caught a bus” for my “minor”injury in the middle of nowhere. You are talking sh**e.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

About 6 years ago my late mother, then in her eighties, broke her arm. She fell down the stairs while visiting me and wound up with a compound fracture of her upper arm. I called 999 and an ambulance arrived about an hour later, however, they decided they weren't able to deal with the situation so called for an advanced paramedic who arrived shortly after in a car. He requested the air ambulance but it was already on another call. Another ambulance, with an appropriately qualified
crew, arrived after about half an hour and they were able to take her to a&e. The original ambulance and the paramedic left after that. It seemed to me that we were taking up an inordinate amount resources for an unreasonable length of time, but it was not our decision.

People have always abused A&E and the ambulance service. I was an A&E sister some years ago. At times I’d see an ambulance pull up outside the entrance and I’d stand by the window and watch to see who/what we were getting. Countless times I saw a crew member get out followed by someone jauntily making their way towards our entrance. I’d keep watching expecting to next see the patient being helped out of the vehicle and into the hospital. When nobody else left the ambulance I would realise that the ‘jaunty walker’ was in fact the patient. To my mind if you can get yourself out of an ambulance and walk normally you have no business calling an ambulance.