Is Gender Critical the new Pro Life?

You do realise this movement started well over 20 years ago? So many involved and so much changed long before the chattering classes noticed and started to get involved. The trans movement was there, long before gay rights were firmly in place. Because theses things, feminism, gay rights, the queer movement, trans rights, are all interlinked. They feed each other. It's impossible to separate them as the GC movement is trying to do.
Yes, I realise that transpeople have been growing in number for 20 years, and that they have been getting more vociferous as time's gone on. I was supportive of that - I still have no issue with people living as they choose. Where I part company is with trans rights pushing out women. Yes, spaces, but also laws, language, stats etc. I also object to the way TRAs treat lesbians, to the 'No Debate' approach to things, and the way Stonewall has insinuated itself into workplaces to force people to declare their 'gender identity' whether they feel they have one or not.

And to think that the gay and trans communities are in harmony is to misunderstand the situation quite dramatically. Yes, Stonewall has hijacked the LGB movement to add a compulsory 'T', but Stonewall no longer speaks for many in the LGB group - hence the breakaway groups that get victimised on marches and need police protection. It's not GC 'movement' who are 'separating them', it's Stonewall.

Oh yes, GJ trans rights like being allowed to call lesbians transphobic if they refused sex with TW. I’m sure they’re all working together . . . Not.

some ideas like it's possible to change sex?

Galaxy that's a fair point and it can seem that way talking to individuals but also what does keep changing is what is allowable.

There are now often real life consequences for saying discriminatory things online as one example. People can lose their jobs, homes, friends and family members. Platforms are disallowing some talk topics or groups to converge. People are recieveing training in the workplace. Children are being taught acceptance and inclusion. British values have been for a long time, Individual Liberty, Tolerance and Respect.

We are making progress on many fronts and eventually some ideas will just get people nowhere in life.

use people's personal negative experiences against them or laugh at them.

I've checked back and can see nothing of the sort but, if you feel that guidelines have been breached, you must report it.

I dont know why people thing progress is inexorable, it's actually much more complex than that, womens rights have improved dramatically in terms of work, etc but there are now new challenges in terms of porn, etc, similar in some ways for gay rights, we have achieved equal.age of consent, marriage etc, but the attacks on lesbians right to be same sex attracted are very similar to what was happening in the 80' s and 90's. Same old same old in many ways. Sometimes what we see as progress is anything but.

I think it's very interesting that I am somehow a bad person over my use of language.

Chewbacca your comment is violating guidelines.

I am as human as everyone else, I have days where I am more patient or less patient. I have days when life is going well and days when it isn't. I will sometimes respond in the way I am spoken too.

What I do not do is use personal insults, use people's personal negative experiences against them or laugh at them.

If people think badly of me, don't talk to me, we would both be better off.

GagaJo

Because it's progress. It moves forwards inexorably.

So eventually you’ll recognise the truth that TWANW. That would be real progress for you, but I doubt I’ll see it in my lifetime.
You do realise that all the pontificating you do is doing more harm than good to those trans-people who just wish to live without making hue and cry about it?
No, I don’t suppose we will see that progress from you either.

Chewbacca

^This is only an iternet disucssion forum and we aren't the generation effecting change. We're^ here out of interest, not making political policy.

You're so, so wrong there Gagajo. It's "internet discussion forums" like this one, Mumsnet and many others, who have been quietly discussing these issues for many months; realising that what started off as a minority of people wanting, and deserving inclusivity, has surreptitiously had a completely different anti female and exclusionary agenda. And it's because each of those "internet discussion forums" became aware that it wasn't just them that had concerns as to how this was impacting on natal women, that they joined forces, spoke with a collective voice and campaigned for recognition as to what the majority of women are losing on the alter of a tiny minority men.

I'm grateful, that forums such as this one, have given women a platform to add their voices to the growing disquiet about the erasure of women and that this has now been picked up by the House of Lords and the BBC who are discussing it openly.

We won't wheesht now Gagajo.

You do realise this movement started well over 20 years ago? So many involved and so much changed long before the chattering classes noticed and started to get involved. The trans movement was there, long before gay rights were firmly in place. Because theses things, feminism, gay rights, the queer movement, trans rights, are all interlinked. They feed each other. It's impossible to separate them as the GC movement is trying to do.

You started getting involved in these discussions as someone who was just interested in love and peace and living in harmony, but now you are on about winning battles and wars, and inevitable conquest. That was quick.

Not really Doodledog, some of us knew their real agenda from the beginning and were never taken in by the "we're all trees in the forest and I just want peace for all" guff.

Because it's progress. It moves forwards inexorably.

VioletSky

TWAW.

Please make no mistake that those of us who agree trans women are women have already won most of the battles for trans inclusion and against trans discrimination.

We will win the war.

It's inevitable.

Soup, mops, words on a screen, will not stop it.

Tomorrow belongs to me?

You started getting involved in these discussions as someone who was just interested in love and peace and living in harmony, but now you are on about winning battles and wars, and inevitable conquest. That was quick.

Yes a war, those words say quite a lot.

TWANW I just quote the truth.
What is it you think you have won? Another of GJ’s playground games.

TWAW.

Please make no mistake that those of us who agree trans women are women have already won most of the battles for trans inclusion and against trans discrimination.

We will win the war.

It's inevitable.

Soup, mops, words on a screen, will not stop it.

As I am speaking this answer into my phone, I am mopping the kitchen floor and listening for the timer on my soup maker and knowing that TWANW.
I’m sooooo disappointed to know that’s not multitasking. ???
Never mind trisher.

Chewbacca

Blooming heck trisher I've seen you clutch as some pretty tenuous straws om the past but that's the thinnest yet.

Sorry don't understand that at all. I always believed I could, and did. multitask but looking at what happens in your brain shows that isn't how it works. I think it's interesting I thought others might too but ignore if you want, makes no difference to me.

Blooming heck trisher I've seen you clutch as some pretty tenuous straws om the past but that's the thinnest yet.

No ideas about what these 'gender signals' you mention are, trisher? Please educate those of us who have no idea what you are on about?

Chewbacca

I can be concerned with more than one thing at a time Lincslass caring about one issue doesn't negate any others Afterall, I AM A WOMAN and I can multitask.

You do know that brain research indicates nobody actually multitasks don't you?? blog.rescuetime.com/multitasking/

Gender critical: We are raising concerns about Males in prisons sport etc.
Non gender critical : Women are dangerous too, what you are saying is mean to men.
Gender critical: Some institutions appear to be beginning to debate the issue.
Non gender critical: Those institutions are full of men so are very bad.

I’m a woman (adult human female) so I too can multitask. I learn new things both at home and at work. ,
trisher, you need to go back and read the long transcript from Chewbacca to help you understand that mice are not mentioned in the same matters as the rights of adult human females.

Oh the H of L and the BBC possibly two of the most reactionary, white male dominated organisations you can find. Good luck with any equality they propose because they really don't appreciate differences

Is that it?

I can be concerned with more than one thing at a time Lincslass caring about one issue doesn't negate any others Afterall, I AM A WOMAN and I can multitask.

Chewbacca

^This is only an iternet disucssion forum and we aren't the generation effecting change. We're^ here out of interest, not making political policy.

You're so, so wrong there Gagajo. It's "internet discussion forums" like this one, Mumsnet and many others, who have been quietly discussing these issues for many months; realising that what started off as a minority of people wanting, and deserving inclusivity, has surreptitiously had a completely different anti female and exclusionary agenda. And it's because each of those "internet discussion forums" became aware that it wasn't just them that had concerns as to how this was impacting on natal women, that they joined forces, spoke with a collective voice and campaigned for recognition as to what the majority of women are losing on the alter of a tiny minority men.

I'm grateful, that forums such as this one, have given women a platform to add their voices to the growing disquiet about the erasure of women and that this has now been picked up by the House of Lords and the BBC who are discussing it openly.

We won't wheesht now Gagajo.

Oh the H of L and the BBC possibly two of the most reactionary, white male dominated organisations you can find. Good luck with any equality they propose because they really don't appreciate differences