GPs and opening times, whats going on

When one phones my surgery you have to listen for about six minutes to announcements about what you have to call if you have breathing difficulties, heart pains, Covid symptoms etc then wait to be put to a receptionist who will triage you. I don’t like discussing my symptoms with her.
Three weeks ago I was unwell and needed to be seen by a doctor. Instead a paramedic was sent. I am housebound. Apparently doctors do not now do house calls and are working from home. It was something which really needed an internal examination and was suggested I was sent to hospital for this. I refused. At my age and state of health cannot face hospital.
Very few are able to actually go to the surgery and then are seen by the Practice Nurse.

Well done 2020. If we need to complain we should do so. Not everyone has the same degree of help from surgeries and if they get enough feedback will have to consider how they relate to people more. After all, why do we have GPs in the first place? Considered reasonable complaints are not 'GP bashing' and people should feel free to voice their concerns.

Our GP is practically unavailable now. Phoning in the morning is be a total waste of time - 'constantly engaged, and then a message tells you there are no more appointments. I used to book online - that facility has now been stopped. I have hand delivered a letter to my surgery; even that was fraught with difficulty as getting one of the receptionists to come to the door was a challenge in itself. (No post box) Luckily I don't need to see him often. A friend went to A and E the other day and said it was heaving with people who had been advised by 111 to visit, as they couldn't get to their GP.

Can anyone tell me what GP s are doing if they aren't seeing patients in the surgery and telephone appointments are very limited. I've been unwell for a while so decided to phone for a telephone consultation by the time I got through slots for that day and the day after were full. I was given a date for 3 weeks time! I do hope this is not the future as l feel a person has to be seen in person by the doctor.

Ladywee I like your numbers 1 - 5 list.
I might just add I am not dissatisfied with the service at my GP practice at all.
All my adult life I have been in category 2 - a private patient, although I did of course have to get my GPs to refer me for consultations.
I have also been in number 5 category abroad.
So, all in all, I have never cost the NHS a penny even though I have paid taxes and NI contributions.
Now I am retired and no longer have Bupa I can honestly say that the service I have received from the NHS, especially my gp, has been excellent .

www.ivygrove.org.uk/status.html?ref=ivy.gs/status

You may enjoy this reading. A brave post by a surgery feeling the pressures felt by all and trying to highlight some of the issues GPs face.

My son who is a GP showed me this, I am sure it will offend many but it speaks the truth, one that is echoed by many of my friends who are looking to retire earlier than expected to escape. I was in secondary care so dealt with many other frustrations but have several family members working flat out in primary care and several close friends, many of whom are burnt out and looking to leave.

growstuff

What a shame there are so many entitled patients, eh? How very dare they?

Without going over all the points previously made, we are all as UK citizens entitled to NHS care, free at the point of access. However, we are not entitled to demand what we want because we feel the having contributed, that enables us to demand without clinical need. Care is based on need, not want, and unfortunately due to the growth of population, rising age, advances in science, lack of resources, we cannot all have what we want. NHS rationing has to be done. That includes access to GP time. You may be right that your complex health issues need f2f time. Equally they may easily be managed virtually or perhaps a bit of both as seems to suit most people.

BTW as I said, n=1 is not a great statistical sign. NHS Digital does not 'claim' anything. They collate all the information and present it. If you feel that is a 'claim' implying some sort of untruth, there is little point in the debate. NHS digital collate info on all the stats eg waiting times in secondary care, primary care, no. of appts offered, no. of 'do not attends', etc. They do get GP practices to submit timings on things like time taken to answer the call, no. of calls to the practice per day, waiting times for appts so that they can monitor areas in need.

However, you have options if you are disastisfied with your care within the NHS, as moaning on a forum is unlikely to change anything.
1. Register at an another practice.
2. Pay privately for care where, because you are paying you will have more chance of demanding what you want.
3. Be proactive and make noise at your MP to change the system.
4.Complain to NHSE if you believe your practice are acting inappropriately and it will be investigated.
5. Leave the UK and find a better health service elsewhere.

I phoned the gp practice this morning at 8.30. My GP phoned me back at 8.55 and because I needed to be seen he gave me an appointment at 9.55.

BlueBelle

I should have added I can well understand people with more complex needs wanting face to face contact but surely if you can deal with more simple cases over the phone or video call that leave the practice freer for more complex health needs We all know how many no shows there are every week and how many take up an appointment with a snuffle also with colds and flu surely it’s better for that person to not be sitting in the waiting room

I do have complex needs and that's exactly why I have requested a face to face appointment, but according to one poster, that makes me entitled.

PS. And, yes, I self-diagnose whenever I can and buy my own medication, even though I could receive free prescriptions, but apparently I'm still "entitled".

What a shame there are so many entitled patients, eh? How very dare they?

I feel so sorry for you Oldbat with a sick husband. If you're not happy about something phone your local hospital and ask them for advice----telling them that you can't get an appointment with your GP. Shame him/her, they get paid enough !

exacerbated

Predictive text, grrrr

GagaJo why do you think doctors are leaving this country? Why do you think that doctors have been leaving for years, whoever was in power? Do you seriously think that doctors have only just started leaving because we’ve got a Conservative government now? Covid has exasperated the situation I agree, but doctors have been leaving for years. We used to call it the brain drain. We’re losing, and have always lost our doctors because other countries value their skills properly and incorporate that respect into their conditions of service. Fewer hours, fewer patients, longer consultation times, more pay. That’s why they’re leaving.

Thank you BlueBelle for a post that tells it how it is for the vast majority of patients in this country. And for your support. Sadly though, your support won’t prevent my daughter and family, and many others, from seeking a more satisfactory working life abroad. There are many equally satisfied patients in the country, but unfortunately many others too. No wonder the doctors are leaving.

LadyWee
My daughter is a GP. She has discussed the points that your links/posts raise with me. I’m glad a real doctor has decided to post on here, because I know what you say is correct. However, with some posters, you are wasting your breath because some posters are determined they are right whatever is said or explained and despite the actual evidence. The difference between most posters and my daughter or yourself is that people who are actually doctors have read all the information and know the position nationally. Doctors are well informed about their own profession. However individuals who are not doctors are making judgments based their own dissatisfaction and they have no idea how many patients needed to wait for an appointment or how many were seen the same day. It has always seemed strange to me that the posters lamenting not always being able to be seen face to face are the very same ones who have claimed over the last year to never go to the shops or anywhere else, but they apparently desperately want to see the reception staff when they arrive, then possibly meet other people in the building, and finally see the GP who has a much higher chance of being infected with Covid than the socially distanced people in the supermarket, due to the fact that they have been seeing patients face to face all through the pandemic. Hence the number of GPs who have died or suffered from Covid , including my own GP son in law. Of course they don’t go to work once they know they have Covid.

Anyway, as you say, many doctors are leaving to work in other countries where GPs are treated with more respect than they are here by the government and by many of the patients. It’s hardly surprising given their extremely transferable skills, and unfortunately doctors are not being replaced as quickly as they are leaving, as my daughter, who has seen the data, has told me. In fact, next month my daughter and my son in law, both GPs, are leaving to go to work in New Zealand. Why aren’t the general public and in particular, posters on here, concerned about this? Because the more GPs that leave, the less likely they are to be able to get a quick face to face appointment whether they believe they’ve paid for it or not.

Two fewer GPs from next month. And how many more that we don’t know personally? According to the data, many more.

I should have added I can well understand people with more complex needs wanting face to face contact but surely if you can deal with more simple cases over the phone or video call that leave the practice freer for more complex health needs We all know how many no shows there are every week and how many take up an appointment with a snuffle also with colds and flu surely it’s better for that person to not be sitting in the waiting room

I use a very large practice but the new system is so far working really well for us I don’t use the doctors very much prefer self help wherever possible but over the 15 month lockdown I have had to use it twice both times I filled an email form in the evening by the next morning I had an answer telling me I would get a phone call from MY OWN. Doctor after 9 am and very soon after 9 I did get a personal call we talked over my problem agreed on a medication that had been used before and by 11 am I had picked up my medication at the nearby pharmacy This saved me a two week wait for an appointment (with any GP) and two bus rides
Again for the vaccination i was rung for a next day appointment I went on time and it was run like clockwork straight in, ja, straight out next person in
I ve got nothing but praise for the new system

Unfortunately, we have got what the electorate voted for. The Tories don't want an NHS. It is a basic tenet of Conservatism.

This was on the cards with or without covid.

LadyWee I see that you're another one who thinks people like me are "entitled". Well, let me tell you something! I rarely go to a GP, despite occasions when I probably should have gone. I'm intelligent enough to make use of online search facilities and buy my own medication, if it's available over the counter, despite being eligible for free prescriptions as a diabetic.

Like almost everybody else in the country, I have paid taxes and NICs and I am entitled to NHS care. I've paid for it.

LadyWee

watermeadow

Figures show many fewer people seeking medical help during lockdown, So GPs are not more busy.
When I could no longer bear my symptoms and had self-diagnosed myself from Google I rang the Dr. I was offered a telephone consultation 3 weeks ahead.
I needed blood tests, also 3 weeks ahead.
Each time I rang I waited between 30 and 45 minutes on hold.
I was given faulty drug dosages by a receptionist. and test results dismissed by her as ‘normal’ when the Dr later said they weren’t.
When I was finally being treated and not afraid of being ignored if I complained, I wrote to the practice manager. No reply.

do you have data to support this please? The NHS digital data suggests otherwise?

Always useful to deal in facts and figures!

I have no idea what NHS digital claims, but this has also happened to me and I don't believe for one moment that "watermeadow" and I are the only ones.

How would NHS digital know how long I've had to wait for somebody to answer the phone or be given an appointment anyway? I've never been asked.

The problem is that people sometimes want to see a GP for reasons they don't want to discuss with all and sundry. I never feel comfortable on the phone anyway and I know there are others like me. Another problem is continuity of care. Very often people have symptoms which can't be explained that easily, so the GP gives some treatment and tells the patient to come back if it hasn't cleared up. The patient then tries to make an appointment a few weeks later and can't see the same GP, so has to use the first part of a ten minute appointment describing everything all over again. People with mental health issues are particularly affected by this sort of "care".

I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes 30 years ago after going to the GP for something totally unrelated, but a very wise GP was suspicious of my symptoms and sent me for tests, which proved positive. My concern is that that would not have been picked up if I'd only had a telephone appointment and/or been able to discuss one issue.

earnshaw

we have been with our local GPs for many years, quite a small practise ,they have , most of the time, been excellent but since the pandemic started, like other practises i suppose, have changed, not for the better, trying to get in is like trying to get into fort knox, we have to ring first, then, if we are lucky, we get a phone appointment sometime, maybe next week, then the doctor, whoever he might be, will decide whether he needs to see you or not ,if he does then you have to make an appointment for whenever, this is not new , with our practise there has always been phone appointments if the problem is treatable without seeing the patient but surely, at this stage , we should be able to see our GP at their surgery , it worries me that this will be the future, not happy

Just to be clear - what is the problem with this??

watermeadow

Figures show many fewer people seeking medical help during lockdown, So GPs are not more busy.
When I could no longer bear my symptoms and had self-diagnosed myself from Google I rang the Dr. I was offered a telephone consultation 3 weeks ahead.
I needed blood tests, also 3 weeks ahead.
Each time I rang I waited between 30 and 45 minutes on hold.
I was given faulty drug dosages by a receptionist. and test results dismissed by her as ‘normal’ when the Dr later said they weren’t.
When I was finally being treated and not afraid of being ignored if I complained, I wrote to the practice manager. No reply.

do you have data to support this please? The NHS digital data suggests otherwise?

Always useful to deal in facts and figures!

watermeadow

I’ve just seen my phone bill. Five calls to the surgery with waits up to 45 minutes cost me almost £20.
Now I need to book more appointments I shall stagger down to the surgery to make them, which is 20 minute’s walk away.

the exercise will do you good I would have thought!

Retired Dr thankfully here!

Aren't these Dr bashing threads rather old and tiresome!

Thought it may be useful to add some facts to the discussion for anyone that is interested. Obviously one would realise that across the many, many GP surgeries things will be done differently due to size, patient cohort, staffing issues, GP preference etc etc etc. BUT the numbers really are not difficult to find if anyone wants to have a reasonable discussion rather than a n=1 trial based on just their own experience!

app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiYzU2OTA2ODktZTIyNy00ODhmLTk1ZGEtOGVlZmRlZDNjYzY3IiwidCI6IjUwZjYwNzFmLWJiZmUtNDAxYS04ODAzLTY3Mzc0OGU2MjllMiIsImMiOjh9

NHS digital (Jan data as more recent being awaited) shows majority of appts were done face to face, by GPs, and on the same day as requested, with an overwhelming majority being done within 0-7 days of request. Which kind of suggests the majority of GPs are in fact, surprise surprise, still working, still seeing patients in person and with a minimal wait time for an appt.

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/pressures/pressures-in-general-practice

This details the pressure GPs face namely - increasing appt numbers, decreasing GP numbers, older more complex patient conditions plus decreasing funding.

And this details why so many doctors have left the country in the last 6 months notably that GPs are managing significantly more patients than is currently felt to be a safe number.

I rarely post but often peruse, and am so disappointed by some of the things I read with respect to doctors, in particular GPs that I felt obliged to post to try and educate.
www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/workforce/hundreds-of-gps-have-left-the-nhs-to-move-overseas-new-figures-show/

It might be worth thinking before we all start criticising from our comfortable armchairs, that there may be more to all this than Doctors sitting on the golf course making a few calls and refusing to see us in person about an issue that can be wholly and safely managed over the phone, so that they can see the person who is unable to be vaccinated from COVID, or fails to build a proper immune response, and actually needs ( as determined by the doctor who is trained to make that decision, not a lay person who misinterprets wants for needs) a physical examination... Food for thought?!