Free at the point of use?

It has been interesting reading all the posts, thank you for answering my question.

I am going to say what I think, but first of all let me say that none of what follows is in any way a criticism of anyone on this thread, we all have to make the right decision for ourselves and our families based on what is right at the time.

But I think that private healthcare is an abomination. Those who say you should be able to spend your money how you like and be able to buy better healthcare, what would you say to the people in the queue that LadyGracies’s husband was able to avoid, those people who maybe went blind because they didn’t have enough money to prevent it? And Blossoming, who got the expensive scans and rehabilitation paid for by private health insurance. If she needed them for her health, why were they not available to everyone, regardless of whether they had health insurance or not? And grandMattie’s mum did jump the queue. The people who couldn’t pay had to wait 18 months at least to get the treatment she was able to get straight away.

And the argument that private patients pay for the NHS. I read the article you posted NellG, thank you. But in my view that pre-supposes that a private stream has to exist. It doesn’t. Instead of a few people paying for superior treatment, use our taxes to make sure everybody gets the best treatment they can. Raise more tax if necessary. We should not have to rely on crumbs from the rich man’s table.

If you have more money, you can chose to get a front row seat at the theatre or Wimbledon, or whatever. You can choose a nice hospital room with lovely curtains if you like. Good luck to you. But the fifth biggest economy in the world needs to be able to look after all its citizens’ health equally. Having more money than the next person shouldn’t allow you to choose health over illness. I know this is probably impossible, but we should try.

I also think you shouldn’t be able to pay for a better education, but that’s a whole different thread!

I recently chose a private (phone) consultation with a specialist I’d researched myself, my GP was out of options for my acid reflux/hernia and it was/is not life threatening. The consultant recommended a drug to my GP which has now been prescribed. I have every confidence in my local NHS surgery who are brilliant and have proven so with a recent breast cancer scare. I’m fortunate, we could afford the consultation, was it right? I don’t know, but I don’t think I deprived anyone else.

Muse I think you may have misunderstood my post. At the time I needed the emergency care there were no NHS beds available for me and they found me a place in a private hospital which my health insurance agreed to fund. It wasn’t a question of ‘choosing to go private’. In any case, as I was not conscious the choice would have been made for me.

Agree Urmston as you say ‘money buys you what you like’. And like you I think ‘lucky them’ and move on!

Missfoodlove

Alegrias1 ? I think someone is having a bad day!!!

Alegrias1 ? I think someone is having a bad day!!!

grannylyn65

Really stupid thread

Thanks for your input *grannylyn65". Next time I'm going to start a thread I'll check with you first to make sure it's clever enough for you.

Blossoming

I have no complaints about the excellent care I had, and am still having, from the NHS. However, my private healthcare, provided by my employers, was able to pay for a room in a private hospital, expensive scans and rehabilitation therapies that the NHS wasn’t able to provide at that time.

I've no complaints either with the NHS. Although I've never had a room to myself, I've had expensive and rehabilitation therapies through the NHS. Most recent has been the monitoring of a growth found following a routine pelvic examination and also emergency surgery and hand therapy, which lasted more than a year and part of this was CBT.

My sister in law, over the past five years, has had three private operations, two of those operations I've had done on the NHS. We compared our experiences and the NHS comes way out in front, the main difference was the care given in the hospital and after it by the NHS.

I'd like to see NHS dentistry sorted out. Nearly 2 million people waiting to see an NHS dentist. I live in the south west and Devon and Cornwall patients are waiting an average of 477 days to see a NHS dentist. I could have my pick of private dentists and get an appointment tomorrow.

Keep saying it NellG. Doctors pay for their academic theory training just like any university student, except their initial degree is five years of student loans.

The practical training they receive is offset by the hours of unpaid work they do in hospitals.

They have to pay the fees for all their exams too.

I’m puzzled by the queue jumping stories as the NHS has very clear rules that this must not happen. The medical details of a private consultation can be used to inform NHS treatment, but the rules quite clearly say it can’t be used to bump people up the list.
A complaint can be made if anyone has definite proof.

I think the NHS consultants are allowed to have 10% of their income or time in private practice. Some choose to do this, some don’t.

I have health anxiety. If I had the money I’d have my medics on speed dial.

Doodledog so the student loans etc for 5 + years of university don't count? The hundreds of unpaid extra hours they work don't count?

I think they pay their due.

Even nurses have to pay for their degrees now - no one gets trained by the NHS anymore. Not in the way you're portraying anyway.

Really stupid thread

Money buys you what you like. Where would this end? No private tuition for the 11+ exams, no fee paying schools, no first or business class air travel? No ‘best seats’ in the theatre or corporate boxes at the football stadium or Wimbledon?

Those who have money spend it as they choose. I can’t afford any of the above but don’t have issues with those who can and do. I just think ‘lucky them’ and move on.

Yes and no. I agree that you cannot dictate how one's money is to be spent. There will always be inequality. Also if private patients pay through the nose in NHS hospitals, surely that money is being used for the benefit of those who can't pay, increasing the availability of things?

When my 82 year old mother was functionally blind from catarats, she was told that she would be on an 18 month waiting list to go onto the waiting list - remember those?

We decided that she could easily afford to go private, as she may well have died before she got her operations. In her case, there was absolutely no priviledged treatment. She was LAST on the doctor's list, and when she was reviewed it was at 0700 the next morning - certainly not the usual time for seeing patients!

Yes she jumped the queue, but no, she didn't take up any of the normal NHS patients' appointments/time!

Missfoodlove

Is it fair or right that doctors are allowed to work for the NHS and privately?
I know people who have paid for a private consultation and then had the same doctor do the job on the NHS to queue jump.

In my opinion it's neither fair nor right. Doctors are trained by the NHS, which is paid for by taxes.

I understand that when the NHS was founded it was difficult to recruit doctors, as they had all previously worked privately as there was no alternative, so they were promised that if they did NHS work they could continue to see private patients and lecture in medical schools (at a much higher rate of pay than other lecturers).

Now that every working doctor will have been NHS trained, I see no reason for this to continue, however.

I have no complaints about the excellent care I had, and am still having, from the NHS. However, my private healthcare, provided by my employers, was able to pay for a room in a private hospital, expensive scans and rehabilitation therapies that the NHS wasn’t able to provide at that time.

I can only speak as I find.
I have several friends very proud of their left wing credentials, who don't agree with private health care at all but who used it like a shot when they needed not particularly urgent operations..' I don't agree with it all but......'

Doodledog the surgeon DH saw said that a quite a few of his patients were on NHS lists in Wales in the same situation as DH.
I agree we shouldn't have to pay to jump the queue to receive treatment especially when as you say we'd worked all our lives and paid for any treatment required in taxes.

Yes, Missfoodlove, me too. An acquaintance had a private referral and consultation and then her doctor transferred her care over into the NHS. So by paying for a one off private appointment, she brought her treatment forward by over a year.

Missfoodlove It's not queue jumping, its that the same doctors work across both the NHS and Private practice. As for fair, it's how they make their money. The NHS doesn't pay anybody well.

Is it fair or right that doctors are allowed to work for the NHS and privately?
I know people who have paid for a private consultation and then had the same doctor do the job on the NHS to queue jump.

Just to clarify my points - how the NHS is funded...

www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/how-nhs-funded

Because if we didn't we wouldn't have the best HC system in the world.

We have the best Health Care system in the world - the envy of all. Why, oh why, do we need to pay for private care !!

What a good job the system actually works in a way where the private sector supports the public purse. The NHS wouldn't have survived without the income from PH.