The Vaccine

The problem is that you have to ask the questions that the scientists can't or won't give you answers to. One of them being how long the vaccine immunity will last. It can't be answered because there hasn't been any long-term trial. Now under normal conditions and if there was sufficient vaccine to do a complete mass immunisation programme that shouldn't matter, but there isn't and people will be immunised in batches. So suppose the vaccine doesn't carry a long period of immunity (remember that Covid natural anti-bodies are not as long lived as originally thought) the virus will still be active in the community. Having been vaccinated you may think you are safe, but you may not be, because 6 months or 1 year later the virus may still be contactable and if you were one of the first to have the vaccination you may be vulnerable. Mass immunisation requires just that the ability to immunise whole societies and not just sections of the community.

No question, I will have it as soon as offered

growstuff

Franbern

Just to say Thank You to anewstart for writing such a very amusing (if rather long) rant. Gave me a really good belly laugh - which must be good for me.
Surely, nobody, with any sort of intelligence at all can really believe all this rubbish about us being injected with these nano things to control us.........but it does make such funny reading.
Oh well, suppose it does take all sorts........!!!!!

She didn't write it. She copied and pasted it from a conspiracy website.

?????

This extreme distrust of the medical profession must spring from the way US doctors all seem to be in pursuit of the almighty dollar, though people are drawn into the madness from all over the place. Health as an industry is aimed at removing as much profit as possible from the pockets of "customers", either directly or via health insurance. When people are aware that they are at the mercy of possibly unscrupulous or obsessive medics they do assume the worst motives of all of them.

With a national scheme for treating patients and paying medics, not related to the level of the ability of the patients to pay, there is perhaps less temptation to prescribe expensive drugs and procedures, and therefore there should be less suspicion that anyone trying to infiltrate nano-whatsits into vaccines and so on would get away with widespread bribing to get their way - and it would take widespread bribery to put such a widespread project into action.

One of the good things of a nation-wide health service is that those working in it are paid to be there and ready to treat people when and if they get ill.

But they do tell us that they don't know how long immunity will last, Trisher. Anyone who hasn't heard that they don't know must have had cottonwool stuffed in their ears and a blindfold over their eyes. Mind you, that seems to describe a lot of posters.

I think I said questions they can't answer Elegran that would include the immunity period. Answering they do say they don't know is just semantics

But it is as usual the classic answer of someone who wants the vaccine including the insults- carry on.

We used to live in an environment where public health was pretty well under control, and the chances were that if you got sick, the medical profession had a really good plan for how to treat you. But since CoVid-19 came along there are lots of uncertainties. People like certainty, they want to know exactly how they are going to be affected by the vaccine, or they want to know exactly what the best treatments are if you get sick with the virus. But the truth is that we don’t know, and neither do the scientists, or the medics, because a year ago nobody had even heard of CoVid-19.

In the extreme, this leads to the conspiracy theories because people would really like a simple explanation of how things are, and having someone to blame feels comforting, because it means we just need to expose those who are to blame and all will be well again. And those of us who can’t see that are just gullible, or stupid, of course.

So we need to live with uncertainty and ask questions, but we don’t need to look for problems and think, well that could happen, so it probably will. We can’t go on like this for years while we wait for a vaccine to be proved 99.9999% safe. I trust the trials they are doing and the work of the licencing authorities, not because I’m gullible but because I look at their past performance and understand their decisions. Listen to the facts and then decide, listen to the answers you get when you post valid questions and don’t just conjure up unlikely “what ifs”.

Alegrias2 Given the absolute and complete mismanagement of Covid by this government I reasonably doubt their ability to oversee an effective and safe vaccination programme. This doesn't mean the vaccines don't work this doesn't mean the scientists aren't doing excellent work. It simply means asking questions about how it will work. There have been mass immunisation programmes done efficiently and effectively in the past, wondering if this one will be is absolutely valid.

Then ask that specific question trisher and don't try to cast doubt on the whole idea by questioning the veracity of the trials and the ethics of the scientists.

But many of the scientist I know love to pretend they know more than they actually do Alegrias2. There isn't some sort of distinction that says scientists are above human failure or immune to pressures exerted on them to produce results. And research and scientific studies work best when they are not pressured or hurried to come up with results.

What do you mean by "absolutely valid"?

What are your specific concerns?

growstuff

naughtynanny

I'm 67, I have never had, and never will a have a flu jab, and they will drag me screaming to have this rushed out vaccine which has been created to suit the Government narrative. It takes YEARS to create and test a safe vaccine. The long term effects cannot possibly be known. Do some research ladies, it's all there on Google. Look at the ingredients. Dead foetus, aluminum, formaldehyde, do you really want to put all this into your body? Of course I appreciate everyone thinks and feels differently, it's a personal choice.

What Government narrative do you mean?

Where did you read that the vaccine contains dead foetus, etc?

growstuff and anyone else who likes to do some research.

I think if your mind is set on having a vaccine, then nothing anyone says will sway you, that's fine, I get it.

But, you can and should do your own research first, it's not just a vial of innocence that you are choosing to inject into your body, just key in 'flu vaccine ingredients' or 'covid vaccine ingredients' you may have to do a few clicks, but it's all out there for YOU to read, just like I did.

here is just one link.
www.arnica.org.uk/vaccine/whats-in-a-vaccine
but there are plenty of others, they all say almost the same thing, and if you join up the dots, you will eventually find the insert that comes in the box of vaccine. Its truly horrific.

The Government 'narrative' is one of scaremongering people into having a vaccine that any otherwise healthy individual does not need.

Why would you have a vaccine for something that has a 99.7% recovery rate.

The elderly should be protected, I agree, they are vulnerable to ANY infections, but the rest of the population should be free to choose how they live their life, and should take whatever steps they feel appropriate to protect their health, not be dictated to by Government. It's almost tyranny.
Yes, I do have strong views, but I'm respectful of others' opinions too. It's totally a personal choice.

What the world need is as has been talked about herd immunity, which can only be achieved by a massive uptake.

I think that has been shown on this thread that people are nervous, and thinking about refusing the chance to help defeat this disease.

However, I do think that once mass inoculation starts throughout the world many, many people who are at the moment reluctant will almost certainly change their minds and understand the necessity for society as well as their own self interest to take part in this wonderful opportunity to save lives throughout the world.

We will see the graph whizz exponentially upwards. I am confident of that.

My apologies on numbers tested, and on not being able to quote the reference, the 'couple of hundred' that I inaccurately referred to were those over 65yrs old who have participated in testing.

It should also be noted that within the vaccinated, for the Oxford tests, volunteers take part in a double blind test so some will have received a placebo. All will have maintained lock downs and other restrictions, and continued to exercise social distancing, mask wearing etc. As I remember you needed to be fit and well not taking other medication, not pregnant, and or vulnerable. I don't know if the vaccination was tested on children.

I don't know what % of fit and healthy work age adults will contract Covid whilst distancing, mask wearing etc. It would be interesting to compare.

How many scientists do you know Trisher? Well add one to that number because now you now know me. I know lots of scientists too, and the vast majority of them know that they don't know everything. Many of them became scientists because they are aware that there are many unknowns in the world and the only way to fill the gap is through scientific research. So don't start quoting how research and scientific studies work, and how scientists might be pressured into producing results that would affect the health of millions and millions of people, because in this case this scientist does know better than you.

But, you can and should do your own research first, it's not just a vial of innocence that you are choosing to inject into your body, just key in 'flu vaccine ingredients' or 'covid vaccine ingredients' you may have to do a few clicks, but it's all out there for YOU to read, just like I did.

For the 578th time, being able to Google things doesn't amount to research

Alegrias2

^But, you can and should do your own research first, it's not just a vial of innocence that you are choosing to inject into your body, just key in 'flu vaccine ingredients' or 'covid vaccine ingredients' you may have to do a few clicks, but it's all out there for YOU to read, just like I did.^

For the 578th time, being able to Google things doesn't amount to research

You can say that again

The Internet has been a curse in some respects

I wonder why those who choose to believe in the vaccine feel the need to denigrate anyone who asks questions and to assert their superior and unchallengable knowledge? Could it be that they are neither as certain nor as clever as they pretend? Whistling in the dark perhaps?

I wonder why people ask questions and make random hypotheses and then don't listen to the answers they get?

People will draw their own conclusions about our exchange trisher. In the meantime, here's a quote for you.

The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.
Neil deGrasse Tyson

Claude Levi Strauss
Le savoir scientifique avance à pas trébuchants, sous le fouet de la contention et du doute.
Scientific knowledge advances haltingly and is stimulated by contention and doubt.

Well said Allegrias2. I do resent the implication that the people who choose to have the vaccine are mindless morons who don’t have the intelligence to question the science, whereas the doubters seem to choose extremely questionable sources and then try to persuade other people that those sources are more credible than the scientific evidence. As you say, the science is the science.

I think if your mind is set on having a vaccine, then nothing anyone says will sway you, that's fine, I get it.

Wrong!

My mind isn't set on anything. I find your comment extremely patronising.

You're silly to make such an assumption.

OMG! I've just realised naughtynanny is another one "telling me to do research*.

What is wrong with these people?

naughtynanny How about a link to a proper science-based website, not yet another anti-vaccination one?

How about you do some proper research?