Ann and Geoffrey Hailey - compassion is NOT a crime

You know that people openly travel from the Uk to foreign clinics to medically end their lives pretty much every week, yet their families arent prosecuted!

Why? Because alarm is raised when someone other than the deceased appears to have led the planning and the payment/organisation. This would still (rightly) raise concerns if such clinics were legally operating IN the UK.

Whilst so many are openly going with no legal consequences for their loved one, there must be coersion concerns when family members face legal consequences, as it happens so rarely despite the frequency of UK patients at these clinics.

I don't think anyone has ever been prosecuted for the offence of 'assisting dying', have they?
I believe that the system that operates now, flawed though it is, protects the vulnerable yet ultimately allows people to assist their close family who choose to die.
But the trauma accompanying it is dreadful.
I don't know the answer.

Of course BlueBelle, and I respect your opinion, just as I expect you to respect my choice and that of others.

But you wrote 'I don’t agree with killing our loved ones' - and my point is that NO one here is talking about 'killing loved ones' - at all, never ever, in any way, shape or form. I totally and absolutely 'I don’t agree with killing our loved ones' myself, 100%.

Jane this sounds a truly humane system and I wish we had it here. I do think it is an individual's choice if they wish to end their life because ill health and pain have taken away what they perceive as enough quality of life to carry on living.

I know that if, and when, I get to this stage it is what I would wish for myself. I think that as an adult, and of sound mind, it is a decision I should be able to take.

I did say it was my opinion only Jura and I m not expecting others to agree, it’s how I feel
I don’t want to be kept alive for the sake of it and don’t want any resuscitation or ops if it’s to gain time only but I still don’t believe we can decide when our end is taking place I don’t know why I feel that, it’s not for religious reasons I just do

Indeed Jane - my heart goes out to you.

Did the threat of being prosecuted cause you added stress and worry, I wonder.

Thank you Smileless2012. She was a very special lady and we spent many happy times with her over the years. She was always out and about. She was Twenty years our senior and we had trouble keeping up with her when we were out walking. Recent years found her increasingly immobile, hearing impaired and eyesight failing spending most of her time in one room in a care home. Who could begrudge her release from that?

No onslaught from me Jane just somefor you and your family and my sincere condolences for your loss.

There is a scheme in Canada called Medical Assistance in Dying, in fact a relative whose life has been miserable for the past few years because of declining health took advantage of it on Monday this week. It is a complex procedure and too complicated for me to outline here but it can be seen online. There are many safeguards to ensure that people are not coerced and only medical personnel are authorised to carry it out. People are allowed to change their minds at several stages in the procedure. Our relative went through the formal channels to apply for this and the only part her family played was to ensure she was able to spend time with her family and friends to say goodbye, to take her to the place she chose to end her life and be with her at the end. She chose the date and place where she wanted to die. Her daughter asked her many times during the procedure if she was sure it was what she wanted and right until the last minutes she could have changed her mind.

Not surprisingly this has divided opinions within the family but my view is that our feelings on the matter are secondary and that we should remember it was her wish that this happen. In fact when permission was granted and it was all arranged she said she could not wait.

If such a system was available in this country this lady would not be in this position. Sorry BlueBelle but I don’t see how this could be called killing somebody, it is carrying out their wishes. Yes Jura, it was our relative’s choice and it is not for everyone, in fact another member of the same family went through the agonies of Motor Neurone Disease and didn’t want to avail himself of the system available to him. The system wasn’t for him but it was for our other relative. Personally I wish it was available here; if it was and if I was suffering with a terminal illness I would apply.

I will leave now and wait for the onslaught!

The other really important thing here is that, if assisted suicide were legalised here, people seeking to end their lives would actually live longer - as it is, they have to be able to travel to (say) Switzerland while they are still well enough.

The circumstances are not at all funny jura, but your opening OP was stated so authoritatively and dramatically and, as so often happens, not actually 100% factual! That's what amuses me.

BlueBell - who on earth has talked about 'killing our loved ones' - have you read any of the posts at all?

I totally respect that you would not wish this for you. Totally respect that some people would prefer long term palliative care- even if it does not control the pain in the end. But it is a CHOICE - it was Geoffrey's choice, and Ann helped him with his wish not to suffer to the bitter end- knowing he would suffocate.

the fact is - and I am surprised you find it funny- that any spouse or relative who helps a loved one plan and make the journey, has their stress and worry multiplied by the fact they are committing a crime in British Law- this is also a massive worry for the person concerned- as it was for poor Debbie Purdy. She knew her husband would be liable to prison if he helped her- this massively added to her pain and distress. Is it funny, really?

Ops Statement: She is now threatened with prison for helping him
Statement: The matter was closed with no further action
Question: So she's not threatened with prison?
Ops Statement: No, but she could be

Loving this thread already!

I don’t agree with killing our loved ones or anyone else come to that, It’s not our decision to make in my mind we don’t have any say in arriving here, who we arrive to, where we arrive and I don’t think we have any right to say when we go either Just my opinion

jura you be believe it would be the same in this country ?
Would it be available on the NHS ? The police could trusted
100?

In Switzerland, we have amazing palliative care, humane, well-funded - compared to UK where palliative care is often provided by charitable organisations (like wonderful LOROS in Leicester, where many friends have died in the past). But it is a choice- and is not for everybody. It would not be my choice - MY CHOICE.

Annieb 'I am against it, what of those whose family want rid of them'

honestly- really? There is no way that can happen- we are not talking about Euthanasia here- but about assisted suicide, with all the proper safeguards in place. Here, people requesting help have to make the request themselves, to the Association (in my case I am a long-term member of EXIT). They have to be interviewed, on their own, by trained volunteers- who probe to ensure that no-one is putting pressure on them, that it is entirely their own clear wish, and that they are totally capable of making that choice and Compus Mentis and that they have no hesitation at all. A second interview takes place on the Day- videoed- to ensure the same- and the whole event is videoed and the video submitted ot police immediately after the event. There is NO way whatsoever that 'family who want rid' can have influence on this matter.

What's wrong with the palliative care we have in this country ?

I agree with a lot of what you say Riverwalk but I think we do need to look at how we continue to keep people alive who clearly have no quality of life or who do not wish to prolong their life. 'Thou should not strive officiously to keep alive ' There is no clear answer or solution is there ?

I am against it, what of those whose family want rid of them

I'll repeat what I trot out, every time you trot out this sort of story:

The UK is not Switzerland, Holland or Oregon - we do things differently e.g. patients being inappropriately put on the Liverpool Care Pathway because the trusts were financially rewarded if they did so; and even to this day patients, particularly the elderly and infirm, are shamefully neglected; right this minute on Radio 4 there is a dreadful story of people with learning difficulties being abused.

And our DWP expected a six stone dying man to find work.

We can't be trusted to run a Dignitas-style system.

I agree with Lord Sumption - “I think the law should continue to criminalise assisted suicide… and I think that the law should be broken from time to time.”

Yes, I know it's a cop-out, but life and end of life is an imprecise art.

I have read the article.

No- but do read the article. The fact is she could be, as could anyone who helps a suffering partner, parent or friend in the future. They have to constantly be in fear - before and after- when life is difficults enough in the circumstances.

Discrimination against the disabled is illegal. So in my view, if someone is of clear mind, and their wishes are clear- then everything should be done to help them overcome the difficulties their illness brings - or at least allow loved ones to do so.

So she's not threatened with prison.