Sleeplessness

I'm with you beejo. Its ok for others to say no pills. But if your health is suffering through longterm sleep deprivation you will try whatever you need to. I'm very sensible. My doctor knows I object to taking pills. I feel they should be kept to a minimum. But you cant say no pills if you haven't been in the persons shoes. I have M E. ( CFS) and fibromyalgia. Lack of sleep impacts on me so much. I have sat in bed in the middle of the night crying and wondering how to go on. So wracked with pain exacerbated by sleep loss. So whatever works. As long as you don't get addicted to anything.

GabrielleG'
I have on many occasions while on the sofa watching late night TV 'dropped off 'Not literally.Only to wake up in the early hours and deciding to stay where I was. I don't consider I suffered any ill effects from this . I know by the time I had prepared myself for sleeping in my bed I would have gone passed tiredness. Now I always keep an extra blanket on hand just in case .

*simply

There was an article in MailOnline yesterday, about a 'cure' for insomniacs. Something to do with how astronauts cope.
It might still be available to read but I can't see it today.
Worrying is simpmy exacerbating the problem.
The bods who conduct research into sleep patterns and insomnia, recommend not going to bed unless you're 'dog tired', in a cool dark room. If you can't drop off within 15 minutes, get up, do a jigsaw, read...anything, but don't go back to bed unless you really can't stay awake any longer.
Try sleeping downstairs on the sofa if bed isn't working for you.
Anything but pills.

Totally empathise with you Nonnie. Think I must have tried everything going but like you only get a good nights sleep every 4/5 days. Go to sleep tired but then my mind goes into overdrive and then after trying to relax, count my breathing etc I always start itching or els get aches and pains in various parts. The more I try to ignore it the worse it seems to get. Often up at around 3am to watch TV, have milky drink and then go back to bed at about 6am and then manage to sleep for a couple of hours to eventually get up in a not very good mood.

Try the 4-7-8 breathing technique. Works for me every time. This method has been endorsed by Yoga and meditation teachers. The following has been extracted from internet post.

Close your mouth and inhale quietly through your nose to a mental count of four seconds.
Hold your breath for a count of seven seconds.
Exhale completely through your mouth, making a whoosh sound to a count of eight seconds.
This is one breath. Now inhale again and repeat the cycle three more times for a total of four breaths.

I actually go for 10 cycles but rarely get to 10.

Hopefully will work for you.

I've been battling much the same problem for years - I didn't even sleep well as a child.
I don't suppose this will please everyone, but this is what works for me.
First of all I was lucky enough to have a sympathetic GP with the same problem.
He prescribed amitriptyline tablets which seem to be used for all manner of things but I just take two (which is a very low dose) at bed time and my sleep is improved hugely. Very occasionally I could still get into the spiral of not sleeping if something has happened to make me stressed, especially before bed. In that case, I will go to bed, feel sleepy, turn out the light and then - bingo! - wide awake. I may then not sleep until about 3 am and then very badly for an hour or three. I will then not sleep until the same time the next night and the next for about a week until I get too exhausted (and very miserable) to stay awake.
In that situation, I now don't let it go on and on but take a prescription sleeping tablet - just one (but no amitriptyline) - to kick me back into sleeping at a reasonable hour.
The night after after the prescription tablet, I double the amitriptyline, then the following night I have three, then back to two.
I know lots of people disapprove of sleeping medication but for me, it's a question of quality of life.
I can only stress that this works for me.
I also go to sleep every night listening to sleep hypnosis meditations on an MP3 player (all free or very inexpensive downloads).
Good luck - I do understand the total misery of insomnia!

Your post sounds just like i was last year. I just could not get off to sleep, my mind would not switch off. I tried everything. Eventually I found that on days i went swimming and walking I fell asleep a little sooner than on days I did no exercise. Once i had worked that out I exercised for at least two or three hours each day for three weeks and during this time I was physically exhausted and did start dropping off to sleep much sooner. After three weeks I cut back to two hours exercise each day then 1 hour and found I could still sleep. I think not being able to drop off to sleep is a habit your body gets into and you just have to break it. The only way I found to do that was to physically exhaust myself everyday until the habit was broken. Now I read for 20 mins and then drop off to sleep each night and only exercise 2 or 3 times each week.

Yes tried ALL remedy’s ..... every night a challenge ,
Probably haven’t had a FULL nights sleep for years and
years .

Despite what they say about no screen time before bed I get into bed around 10pm snuggle down and watch something on my tablet, usually either the antiques programmes or something like Midsomer Murders, and it is very rarely that I see the end of a programme. I usually then sleep until about 7.30 when I get woken up by the neighbours starting cars etc.
If I'm feeling tense I mix a few drops of lavendar oil with an unscented moisuriser and rub it around my chest, shoulders and back of neck so I breathe in the scent. Seems to work for me.

This happened to me was awake all day and night, a routine blood test showed an over active thyroid get your doctor to run this simple test for you.

Lots of good suggestions here but I think I have probably tried most of them and they have not worked.

Magnesium tablets are bad for you if you already have enough in your system, apparently they don't flush out as some other minerals and vitamins do. I have added magnesium rich foods to my diet but they haven't worked yet. Will try the kiwis.

I don't feel able to take any other medications without checking with a doctor because of the prescribed meds I'm on. Interactions are a strong possibility.

I've tried reciting times tables, poems, hymns etc but that doesn't work, my mind wanders off and I bring it back again but still don't sleep.

Can't stand things in my ears even in the daytime so can't listen to CDs etc and DH would lose sleep if I listened to it on any other medium. No point putting things in my ears if doing so is so irritating it keeps me awake!

In the past I have had significant things to worry about which would explain why I couldn't sleep but I am not aware of anything so worrying at the moment. I have had a lot of life changes recently but don't think I am worrying about them.

Although none of these kind suggestions seem to be the answer for me I hope they have helped others.

I’ve copied below some information mostly from Dr Michael Mosely (TV doctor/journalist) about getting a good night’s sleep.
“I’ve incorporated what I learnt about sleep from making this documentary and can honestly say I’m now sleeping better than I have for years. Among other things, I’m now more careful to avoid social media at least an hour before going to bed, I’ve cut back on alcohol, I do more mindfulness practice and, if I wake up in the middle of the night, I don’t lie there fretting but get up and read a dull book for an hour or so before going back to bed (something I’d also recommend you do if you find it hard getting to sleep).
Oddly enough I found that eating more fibre was one of the most effective ways to increase the quality of my sleep, particularly my deep sleep. I tested this out after reading a recent study, which found that those who ate foods rich in fibre went to sleep more quickly and were less likely to wake in the night than those who ate foods packed with sugar and saturated fat.”
Prebiotic Fibre was featured in 'The Truth About Sleep', where Dr Michael Mosley examined the effectiveness of prebiotic fibre to promote better sleep (take 90 mins before bed) and 'good' bacteria in the gut.
As self-confessed poor sleeper, Dr Mosley said 'I would wake tired and irritable and began to dread going to sleep... I was convinced this disrupted sleep was rotting my brain and ageing my body'.
However, after taking prebiotic fibre in a 5 day experiment for the BBC, he was so impressed with the changes he gave it 9 out of 10 for effectiveness for improving his own sleep.

Look up Inulin on the internet – it is the prebiotic fibre he is referring to.

I have recently bought a wool mattress topper and a pure wool duvet. - during the boiling weather we have been enduring! I have never felt so comfortable, or slept so well. Our mattress was fine, but this topper has taken comfort to a new level, and the bottom sheet, even on the hottest of nights, felt cool to the skin. Waking up in the middle of the night or struggling to go to sleep mostly seems a thing of the past. This won't work for everyone of course as there are many reasons for insomnia but the natural fibres, without any chemicals involved in the manufacture, seem to have done the trick for me. Evidently the wool helps regulate body temperature and sleep is not disturbed for that reason at least.

Agree with the comments about meditation/relaxation, I have a more physical routine which I find helpful.
You start with your toes, clenching stretching then slowly relax them. Work your way gradually up your body, stretching and relaxing every bit, even your face. Do it slowly so that when you relax each bit it feels like you're sinking into the bed.
Takes about te to fifteen minutes once you get into a routine.
Facial massage is good too, it's amazing how much tension there is in your face. Just do small circular moves with the pads of your middle finger, starting above eyebrows, eye socket, under cheekbones, around lips. Your face will feel warm and tingly and relaxed.
Meanwhile I'm going to have a look at Jason Stevenson. Can't have too many relaxation methods in the toolbox! ?

I heard of a good tip. The secret (obviously) is to be relaxed & displace intrusive thoughts. Also it’s good if it’s boring (though counting sheep never works!).
You mentally ‘do your weekly shop’ walking in through the supermarket doors, admire or choose some flowers, decide if you want a newspaper etc and I guarantee you’ll be asleep by the second ‘aisle’!

The monks cd is Gregorian chants.

I have a cd of monks chanting. I know it probably sounds a bit weird, but it works - I never get to hear the end of the cd! ?

I lie absolutely still and do quiet deep breaths pretending I heard a burglar and must stay totally silent so he doesn’t come upstairs. Stupid I know, but it stops me fidgeting and calms my overworking mind

Magnesium Glycinate half hour before bed. Works every time

Dear Nonnie
Try this It always works for me
www.healthline.com/health/4-7-8-breathing

A method I use, 4-7-8 Breathing: How It Works, How to Do It, and More - Healthline
www.healthline.com › health › 4-...
Try this it really does work, when you get used to it .

You say you have a bedtime routine? Are you retired ?do you live alone ? if you have no one else to consider who says you have to have a routine? What is to stop you sleeping when you feel tired ?
Life 21C is twenty four x seven. Unlike our ancestors we do not wake when it is light and go to sleep when it is dark. The more you worry that you can't sleep when you feel you should be sleeping the less you will get to sleep. Don't feel guilty do what you feel comfortable with.

Try 5-HTP I use the Lamberts brand (others available), half an hour before bedtime, also only go to bed when really tired ie not too early.
For info 5-HTP stands for 5-hydroxytryptophan - an amino acid found naturally in small amounts in protein rich foods such as turkey. 5-HTP is converted into serotonin in the human body.
Tryptophan is found in lettuce, nuts, salmon, eggs, tofu, cheese, turkey.
Serotonin made by the body is called 5-hydroxytryptophan, or 5-HTP, and then is made into tryptophan. Tryptophan naturally exists in many proteins such as turkey, eggs, beans and fatty fish such as salmon, sardines and herring. The richest source of 5-HTP is the African Griffonia bean. (the tablets are made from the Griffonia bean)

Flaxseed oil contains both tryptophan and omega-3 fatty acids, which are important for cardiovascular health.
Serotonin naturally exists in kiwi fruit, plantains, bananas, sour cherries, pineapples, tomatoes and plums. Tart or sour cherries are also high in tryptophan and also make DHEA, an important hormone that increases melatonin and helps the body have deep and restful sleep. Many people seeking serotonin-rich foods may also be looking to increase their melatonin levels so they can sleep better.
So a combination of diet and the 5-HTP tablets should help. Also try increasing your Magnesium intake in the daytime, it gets depleted as we get older.
Hope some of this helps a few of you on here.

Keeping a hypnotherapy disc in a cassette by the bed with ear phones may help. Listen to it every time you wake up. Chose a topic you feel is helpful. Here are some.

www.amazon.co.uk/Sleep-Now-Adult-Essential-Relaxing/dp/0956832725?tag=gransnetforum-21

www.amazon.co.uk/Sleep-Every-Night-Glenn-Harrold/dp/1901923207?tag=gransnetforum-21

www.insomnia.net/natural-remedies/cds/