Here we go (sooner rather than later) again.

For me the question is about the quality of life after such drugs and treatment. I have avoided taking as much as an aspirin if possible throughout life, and have been lucky, but drugs do not react well with me and on the rare occasions that I have been given something it has left me with headaches, stomach upsets, and generally feeling out of sorts. Perhaps a really big dose of chemo or a course of medicine to keep me going for another few months would leave me feeling like death warmed up - and would be a pointless option. The will to live is so strong in us all, but I do still feel that I would want to accept the inevitable and depart this life before it became unbearable.

In their 80's fgs ...... That young?
If they had intended in their mid late 90's I would possibly POSSIBLY agree but 80's today is young.....typical Tory suggestion.... Kill us off no worries.

Precisely Tell.. wouldn’t trustthem further than I could throw them. My life, my decision when.

Taking David Davies' words at face value, I just wonder, if a drug is only going to keep someone alive for a few extra months, should age really come into the equation at all? Quality of life, definitely, but age and age alone? I don't really think so!

I'm 57 but have already said to my family that I will not extend my life if I have no quality of life.
Fair enough Shazmo - but what if an expensive drug would give you 'quality of life' - would you turn it down on the grounds that it would cost the NHS too much?:

David Davies has said that the media has misquoted him - this was not the aim of his conversation at all.

I think he's practising the politician's art of distraction. Drugs aren't the problem facing the NHS. The lack of careres and care services is. The government though they had solved the problem by passing the cost on to local authorities. Unfortunately the problem is on-going, the lack of carers is causing a long wait and people are stuck in hospital beds. It was 6 weeks minimum when my mum was in- and lengthening. nothing to do with brexit of course and people who were carers going home.

I think there are cases where people (not necessarily old ones) are kept alive for a few weeks longer with no quality of life at all. There are also elderly people taking huge cocktails of drugs, half of which aren't necessary and may even be harmful. The big problem is the lack of time and money when it comes to tailoring treatment according to patients' needs.

I think it's an appalling idea, and I doubt it could be enforceable by law. It would be 'ageist'. How arrogant for the government to decide who gets the chance to live or die! Sounds like 'Brave New World' territory to me.

My friend’s husband, after a series of mini strokes, finally had a big one. He wasn’t expected to live more than a few weeks. He lingered on, and was moved to a nursing home, where he gradually deteriorated. He ended up in a comatose state, arms hands and legs contorted, and being fed through a tube in his stomach.
His wife had signed a ‘do not resuscitate’ form, but every time he came down with a chest infection they gave him antibiotics.
He eventually died after 18 months of misery for his famihly. His wife died only months later, of a massive heart attack.
I am sure that the stress of seeing him in that state for so long had a lot to do with it.
People should be allowed to slip away peacefully when their time comes, in circumstances like these. I’m sure that the fact that he was bringing in money for the nursing home, with only minimal care being needed, had a lot to do with them keeping him ‘alive’, if you could call it that.

Our GP surgery has a list of medicines it will no longer prescribe for acute [ie short term) illness. Paracetamol, ibuprufen, co-codamol, travel pills, cold sore treatments plus others. Unless you need them long term, I think it’s a great idea. It has apparently saved a lot of money even in our small district.

They are also asking people not to order prescriptions unless they are still taking them, as they have had lots of medicines returned, unused, but which have to be disposed of. The cost - and waste - is enormous.

The NHS already has a points system in place to decide who gets what treatment. It could hardly have done anything else given that they have always worked to a budget.

Just to avoid confusion. There are two conservative MPs called David Davies, one the Monmouth MP whose comments are being discussed on this thread, the other David Davis (different spelling) is the Brexit Secretary !

Thanks for clarifying that vicky.
Hardly government policy then.
Just the comments of a fairly young, maverick MP.

Slightly off topic but I am interested to know...... do GP’s surgeries get paid for every visit? For example .... if you are called for a prescription review (before they will issue a repeat ) would the GP be paid for this ?

These quotes didn't mention quality of life so I don't think that's the issue here. This is a slippery slope to euthanasia at come cut off age, as some have pointed out.

GB is one of the wealthiest countries in the world We have given 500 billion (that is 500 thousand million) pounds to the banks with nothing to show for it except huge bonuses to CEOs etc.

We don't need to rob Peter to pay Paul by raising everyone's taxes to fund the NHS. Let's collect the billions still owed by the wealthy firms and families. And let's ditch those billions spent on weapons we hope we'll never use!

As regards the pharmaceutical companies – they make billions and claim it is all spent on research and development. Recently they were exposed as selling drugs for thousands in one place and a few dollars in another! They have poor track record with animal use and also with release of drugs too soon and hush-ups when things go wrong. They should be nationalised and properly regulated.

Thanks vicky confess I didn't read the original post carefully enough! I apologise to David Davis, although I still think there is a crisis in care because of a lack of carers. A 6 week minimum wait means a patient who doesn't need medical care is in a hospital bed when they are well enough to go home. There used to be convalescent and nursing homes which offered an in-between option. They went ages ago, but they might have helped.

GreenGran78 I just wanted to say how very sorry I am to hear about the suffering of your friend's husband and then her sudden death. It must have affected you very deeply, I am so sorry.
I do not know the protocol of "Do Not Resuscitate" and maybe the hospital wanted him to sign, not his wife. However, I thought that Doctors were supposed to make decisions balancing the Patient's quality of life against their suffering. It does sound as if they "strove officiously to keep alive". It must have been an unbearably difficult time. I would say, in defence of the Medical care, that to die of a chest infection is effectively to drown and a very unpleasant way to die. I think the Doctors could have been trying to make him comfortable by reducing the fluid on his lungs.
Should it be relevant, maybe we could make sure we are clear about our own wishes should the need arise.
I just wanted to say to you that I can see that this has been and is a terrible experience for you, you have lost a friend after such sadness. I am so sorry. I hope and pray that as the days go on you will find comfort and happiness. With love L

grannypauline Brilliant! You said:

This is a slippery slope to euthanasia at come cut off age, as some have pointed out.

YES!

(Just thought it was worth saying again!)

vickymeldrew Crumbs! I'm an idiot!!! Thank you so much! I thought this was brexit-boy David Davis!
What a good thing you told me!

I now go away with egg on my face...

However I still think this David DaviEs was "sound-biting"! Actually, I see Jalima1108 says he says he was miss-quoted.

None the less a worthwhile discussion, I think.

gillybob Last I knew, GP practice was paid according to the number of patients the Practice covers. I don't know how they divvy out the money. I've assumed that there's a pay-scale for GPs just as there is, say, for Teachers.

I know GPs do get paid a huge salary. Last I heard it was around £100K p.a. I also know that working full-time as a GP is a killer of a job if you do it well. It's practically impossible to do everything expected of you unless you stay up all night! So I always try to support my GP, because I am v. lucky to have one of the good ones.

gillybob I stand corrected. I looked on the internet, viz.

"while salaried GPs earn from about £55,000 to £80,000 or more"

I think the £100,000 I got came from a Senior Partner in a Practice. I did get it from "the horse's mouth"!

Gma29 I was aghast that people actually expect to have over-the-counter meds prescribed! When you said your GP practice tells people it can:

no longer prescribe for acute [ie short term) illness. Paracetamol, ibuprufen, co-codamol, travel pills, cold sore treatments

How ridiculous to go to the Doctor for something you can get from the Pharmacy! Taking up a Doctor's time as well!

So, of course, I was aghast that they had to tell people:

not to order prescriptions unless they are still taking them, !!

What kind of people are out there doing these wasteful and stupid things? My first career was in Teaching, I was a bit horrified to find what "average intelligence" meant, but I didn't expect the pupils to be this irresponsible when they left school!

Thank Heaven for all my lovely, sensible GransNet friends!

Sarahellanwhitney. My neighbour is not short of money and can afford to run a car. She has mild arthritis.

David Davies is expressing support for an increase in NHS spending. He has campaigned for cancer drugs which are available to patients in England to be made available to Welsh patients as well, as some are not.

Some drugs which are prescribed abroad are not available at the moment because of the high cost - if we put more money into the NHS it needs to be spent wisely to give as many as possible access to these drugs.

Do we need to increase income tax to be ring-fenced for NHS spending and do we also need to look carefully at current spending on drugs and equipment, in the knowledge that our NHS is being charged more for some of these than is, in fact, justifiable?