Cannabis-induced psychosis...

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Yes,*Nemoiudex*, I'm sorry if I'm hazy on some details - your recollections are bound to be accurate - mine often aren't [h'mm] !
I was present at the meeting with the private psychiatrist and even though our nephew views the consultation rather more negatively, I was really impressed by the private psychiatrist. I found him considerate, thoughtful, honest and astute, and both Mr Rowantree and I would have loved similar care when dealing with DD2's mental health problems over the years. Because we had little or no guidance or family support from mental health workers, we made many awful mistakes/errors of judgment and handled things badly in our misguided attempts to help her and we felt very alone and frightened most of the time.
In hindsight, I wish we'd have thought of paying a private psychiatrist to come to our house for an assessment, but tbh it didn't occur to us - we were too busy trying to get the best NHS care we could, hoping that real help was there if only we could find a way into it. How deluded we were. It's possible things could have been less painful and traumatic if we'd gone private, though of course our funds weren't unlimited. In our defence, at the time, we were trying to put our trust in the NHS not to let us down, but time and time again it does - at least in the area of mental health provision.

Thanks, grannyactivist.

Rowantree is my sister. I'm glad she has found a group where we can discuss the problem with intelligent people!

There are some slight differences in our recollections of events. The private psychiatrist told my son not to drive, but was very vague about when he could resume driving so we simply hid the keys till he seemed okay, and I went driving with him to make sure. But what a gamble to take. I hoped that he'd be referred to a NHS psychiatrist who could tell us whether he was fit to drive - but there was no such consultation available. As to whether he was not ill enough to trigger services, he was communicating telepathically with numerous people in his mind, and talking continuously so that we couldn't get him to go to sleep or get any sleep himself, and he was texting complete rubbish to everyone he knew, ruining many friendships. And because he was over 21, we couldn't lay down the law. The NHS addiction counselling worker (referred to in my previous post) said "you can't take his car keys, you can't confiscate his money, that would be illegal, he's a grown man, he must make his own decisions". Lousy advice from a lousy not-fit-for-purpose health service.

I'd like to admire the thousands of talented caring NHS mental health workers who devote their lives to the care of their patients but do you know, I've met not one.

Nemoiudex I'm sorry, but the reason you probably didn't get more help is because your son wasn't actually ill enough to trigger services. There are a number of brilliant mental health nurses and social workers trying to deal with a relentless tide of service users and the resources are just not there. Add to that a degree of incompetence and inexperience in some managers, overwork, unrealistic caseloads, a lack of government will - and there you have a snapshot of the UK's mental health service.
Rowantree sadly many in-patients I saw when visiting relatives in psychiatric units were there because of cannabis induced psychosis. Some do recover, but in my own experience many have only a partial recovery and others are never free of the consequences.
For all of us who are dealing with mental illness in a relative - from whatever cause.
For all who have worked, or continue to work in the field of mental health. Thank you.

Well, my son developed cannabis induced psychosis, very suddenly and out of the blue. Transformed from a friendly successful graduate into a nutter with an addiction - the stigma meant that we couldn't really discuss it with anyone other than family.

The GP referred him for addiction counselling and didn't refer him to a psychiatrist or prescribe anything other than a handful of Lorazepam tablets as mild tranquillisers. The support we got from the NHS was virtually non-existent. The NHS addiction counselling centre provided a mental health worker who chose not to reveal his qualifications who merely said that it didn't seem like very heavy cannabis intake to him, and frankly he had no idea whether it would be dangerous to resume consumption of cannabis, but as a general principle everyone should try to address their addictions.

In desperation we arranged a private consultation with a psychiatrist whom we had to pay. He was the only expert who diagnosed cannabis-induced psychosis, and prescribed antipsychotic medication which our son was not willing to take. We weren't enthusiastic about it either, so we didn't try to get him to take it.

About 2 months later, without antipsychotic medication, he is very nearly back to his old self but nobody other than his parents has been monitoring his progress or taking any interest in his mental health. There was no advice from the medical profession about whether or not he could safely drive, and we hid his car keys until he seemed to be back to normal.
I yearn for the old days when a kindly GP would actually take an interest in the health of his/her patients and offer support and help. Instead, we get a do-it-yourself pick and mix health service. Bah!

nem how ironic - when you say "elderly conservatives who oppose all drug use" etc. now, you are talking about the generation who first suggested that getting "turned on" and "dropping out" was a good idea, back in the Swinging Sixties.

I think the problem must be far greater than the media would have us believe, especially given the number of people that those of us on gransnet know that have/have had a problem. I currently have two young people in my family that have got a lifelong problem due to taking cannabis, and that doesn't include the uni friend we had who walked under a bus when stoned.

A very interesting discussion - I fear it may be over before I've had a chance to contribute.

Huge numbers of people now partake of cannabis. A tiny proportion seem to develop cannabis-related psychosis. Unless of course it is under-reported. It seems to me that the medical profession is totally uninterested in psychosis, and instead harps on about the demotivating effect of cannabis and the importance of breaking away from all addictions. Those who have a cannabis habit believe, perhaps understandably, that the opposition comes mainly from elderly conservatives who oppose all drug use on principle yet continue to partake of their cigars and brandy (and their powerful antidepressants, or tranquillisers).

Thankyou Grannyknot

At the moment the advice is going in one ear and out of the other with my grandaughter.
It is heartbreaking seeing a lovely girl being influenced by drug pushers.She was a premature baby weighing just two and a half pounds and fought for her life at the beginning.Now she just does not care.
As I have said the stuff seems to be sold at certain corner shops and even petrol stations.Some shop keepers ask for ID and some don't.They are just interested in getting the money.

pink synthetic cannabis - if that's what she's buying, is far from safe. She should stick with the medical advice only.

My DGD3 who is now 17 became a cannibis user 2 years ago. She lives with me. Her mother, my former DIL was having big problems with her and as her father DS2 lives with me she came here.
She is now in the process of weaning herself off it, we have all been through sheer hell.Last year she overdosed on another drug and was hospitalised for a month before discharging herself.She is under the care of a child and adolescent physchiatrist(sp) whom she sees once a fortnight.Her mother accompanies her to these sessions.There was also social service involvment but they were of no help at all.She now takes something called legal highs which is obtainable from certain corner shops and garages.Now down to one packet of this a week.It stinks worse than cannibis but if she has not had a fix her mood is terrible.
We can see a light at the end of the tunnel, once she is off this vile stuff altogether she will be normal again, as we can see a change for the better already.
My sympathy for anyone with loved ones on drugs. It is not nice.

Most mental health trusts have an Early Intervention in Psychosis Team - google the EIP team for your local mental health trust - there should be information about psychosis including drug induced psychosis. Anyone can contact them for advice/leaflets etc.
The MIND website also has some good information.
I suspect the stigma of mental illness is impacting on his parents view regarding medication - if he had a stomach ulcer/migrane headaches would they encourage him not to follow medical advice!!
If he thinks cannabis use has not caused his poor mental health then he is at high risk of using cannabis again especially if his friends use cannabis and do not become psychotic.
The DVLA website has a list of illness that must be reported to them and psychotic episode is one of them. If he informs them they will revoke his license and ask his permission to request information from his GP/psychiatrist. The DVLA will want to hear that he acknowledges his poor mental health, has insight, is complient with medication and stable, without this he will not be allowed to drive. I think both him and his family are in denial and hoping this will not happen again. Sadly it will probably take a few more episodes for both them and him to come to terms with the fact it will not go away until he seeks and follows medical advice. I don't think you are able to do anything to influence their thinking at this point however if you gather some information and keep it to hand then at least you will be able to offer it to them if the worst should happen.

Sometimes it takes something really awful to happen for people to learn the lesson. I'm glad your niece has learned hers and hopefully she will come to terms with the terrible loss of her friend, in time. I just wish my nephew had the same insight. Various members of the family have been trying to persuade him that he HAS had a psychotic episode but though he seems to accept he's had a few issues (!) he says that a) it was due to withdrawal and b) it's not about him, it's about his parents - they are the ones with the problem. He got very angry with me in a text conversation last night. I don't want to alienate him, but he's ranting about family members making 'assumptions' about him when we don't really know him (apparently) and says he's agreed to stay off the weed for two weeks more 'out of respect' for his parents. SIGH. It's like trying to reason with a drunk - pointless

Yes, she did have counselling. I think the whole thing did her a lot of good in a dreadful way. She became a nicer person, I think. She is now 25 and we were talking about her friend a few months ago, and it being such a lottery as to who it affects and who it doesn't.

That's terrible, janerowena what a sad story! Not surprised that your niece is still traumatised. Did she ever have any counselling or therapy afterwards?
And Bez - you're right about it being so dangerous. My nephew wrote a 'manifesto' with his friends - part of his mania/delusion was that they would take over the country and legalise cannabis :/ He is calmer now but still doesn't accept it was the cannabis that caused his psychosis and insists it was his parents' fault for withdrawing it from him and making him go 'cold turkey'.

I am sure there are other similar stories about this drug.

My niece and her best friend went to a party when they were 14 and tried cannabis. Unfortunately the friend went into shock almost instantly. The parents still blame my niece for it - although it was their daughter who brought the stuff with her. The girl took 5 years to be anything like back to normal, but my sister says that she has never been the same, and the parents' marriage broke up because of the stress it caused. My niece is still traumatised over the whole thing, she has in effect lost the best friend that she had had since a very small child.

Agreed

I know someone who took cannibis years ago in his teens - he became mentally ill - he had nightmares in which he would be violent. DH was his carer before we married and this chap came to live with us as part of the family. He did not take drugs for some years as far as we could tell and took his medication. He then went very odd and unpredictable when in his thirties and eventually left us and has lived on his own or as now with a woman partner.
I have not seen him for several years but from what I see he is tweeting he appears to be back taking some form of cannibis again - and advocating that it is legalised and that the gov. collect taxes from its sale. He is tweeting things which are in fact libellous and completely untrue - some of them about DH and his SiL and also now about the police and local health board. As I know this is going on I keep my eye on it but we have not replied in any form. He is very angry about a number of things and looks to me as if he is on a course of eventual self destruction.
A far more dangerous drug than some people would have us believe.

Thanks all - just to clarify, Brendawmms, my DH was pushing for them to take the advice of the psychiatrist and take the antipsychotics, despite the side effects. Our daughter was on them for 2 years and they helped her (different problem, however) - and the side effects were bearable. The benefits outweighed the disadvantages. However, my brother and SiI L are convinced that antipsychotics will worsen his condition and turn him into a zombie . They've asked us not to say anything further on the subject so we won't, but it's very frustrating!
What you say about the legal position re driving confirms what I thought - my Si I L doesn't want him to drive and believes it's unsafe, by brother doesn't agree. Sigh.

I hope he never touches the stuff again. But my brother actually grew his own for personal use until recently, and my other brother, a neurologist, smokes it recreationally from time to time (!) - I've never been impressed by any of that, I have to say. When I experimented with it myself as a student during the early 70s, it did nothing at all for me, so I didn't see the point of it at all - I must have been the only one NOT to get high. It wasn't really until I read of research proving its dangers, and saw the effects on DD2 (it worsened her mental health - she is now very firmly anti-cannabis, thank goodness) - that my position became more polarised.

I wish he'd learn meditation instead. Legal, safe, beneficial - what's not to like?

How sad - "some recover, some don't".

My son had cannabis induced psychosis in his final year of University, 15 years ago now, and it was the most frightening thing that ever happened to our family. Thankfully it was one episode but it was severe. I believe it took him a full year to get over it and before I thought he was back to his old self.

In my view, it is vital that the person concerned has sufficient insight into the severity of the incident to fully co-operate, including never touching cannabis again, as I believe using it again can cause a recurrence of the psychosis. We were lucky that my son got the message.

I abhor that so-called soft drug.

I've seen a lot of them. Some recover, some don't.
It is important he doesn't relapse and may I strongly endorse Brendaw's advice

HE MUST NOT DRIVE

2 of my favourite and brightest ever students have fallen prey to this. One has recovered partly, but still has social and employment problems. The other, a straight 4 A-levels student, has, I am so sorry to say, never ever recovered and is now 40. Truly tragic. Hope your nephew will recover promptly.

Cannabis induced psychosis can be a one only event with a good recovery or can seriously recur. Antipsychotics are beneficial in the early days of the psychosis as the person can be very distressed, anxious and violent. He is prolonging the process not taking them. Although I must admit they do have some side effects.
I once worked ( whilst part of a mental health emergency team) with a gentleman with this psychosis and got him to acknowledge that, although others can take cannabis safely for some they are allergic to the chemicals as others are allergic the mushrooms, peanuts etc. He accepted that but finished by saying that in future he would grow his own so as to ensure it was pure.
Your DH may have been a research chemist and understand the serious chemicals at work in an antipsychotic but I wonder if he has ever seen them used at the right time for the right reason. The benefits do in these circumstances out way the harms.
If your nephew drives after been told by his GP NOT to he will not be covered by his insurance company in the event of an accident.

Cannabis-induced psychosis is increasingly common because of the strength of the substances being circulated now. He needs good medical attention and should cooperate with his prescribed meds. He should be seeing the psychiatrist and GP/drugs team until it's clear the treatment has worked and does not need adjusting, which is often needed in the first weeks of treatment, and he should be having regular drug tests to determine when the cannabis is out of his system and he can maintain himself on the prescribed meds only.

Do not encourage cannabis use - it is not nearly as benign as folks might wish to believe.

I have a relative who became psychotic after its use in combination with another drug. He was admitted to an acute psychiatric unit under a section and is on anti-psychotic medication for life.