Do you envy your daughter?

Mom has always been the common term in regions of the uk

Notagranyet1234 just wonder if you are from USA because you say mom and not mum?

I'm not one jot envious of my daughters and daughter-in-law, or they of me, but I'm glad that they have (touch wood, touch wood) settled lives with their own homes and good jobs.

There are aspects of my life that were probably easier, aspects of theirs likewise, but we certainly don't fit into the rich boomer/poor millennial, lucky South/deprived North stereotypes, and there are many families like us.

We're all in the North, none of us have family money behind us, yet they have found careers that they enjoy, as I did. They all live in houses worth twice as much as the little terrace they grew up in (and where I still, quite happily, live).

As M0nica says, there's immense variability across the nation, there is even across our village. Our local paper recently made much of the fact that an area two minutes walk away is amongst the 20% most deprived in the country. When I checked out the map online, I found that the border ends right at the top of our little terrace, which is now in the top 20%, because of all the four-bedroomed detached executive homes springing up all around us.

gillybob that is my point, there is immense variability, but the way many GN'ers write we are a nation consisting entirely of impoverished families struggling to feed ourselves.

However, there are a lot of places in the north of England that are doing very well, thank you. Plenty of properties over £500,000 in York and Leeds- and Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

I am not dismissing or disregarding those who are struggling, but we sometimes get a very one sided view on GN.

Do I envy my dd? Not one jot.
She has a glamourous job in the public eye, (in fact she was on TV tonight) . She travels extensively for work and lives in a capital city. In her late 20s she has no partner or children and not enough income to buy a property or rent alone and has large debts from her early life as a university student and early working life doing multiple poorly paid jobs in one of the most expensive cities to live in in the world.
She has always had MH issues and frequently still struggles but still works a 12 hour day most days.
She loves her life and no doubt is the envy of others. But good grief, she worked hard to get where she is, her life is so pressured I often wonder how she keeps going.

When I was her age I had 2 dc was (unhappily) married and a sahm. I lived in a town in the North of England which was cheap and had a mortgage.
I still think I had the better deal. I loved being a mom and have loved my life as a mom since the divorce even more.

The South is very different to the North M0nica . There are no houses in my town for £500k, not one .

Everyone keeps going on about the lack of jobs that pay well.

I live in South Oxfordshire, about 30 -40,000 new houses are being built round here over 15 years. Every estate includes a lot of 4 bed houses. Prices £500K plus. They sell like hot cakes to all the young scientists and technologists working in all the high technological companies in the science and high tech business parks that surround us.

Our DD lives near Cambridge, last year she graduated from the Open University with a degree in science and technology. She just walked into a new job in a research centre to begin an entirely different career. They were so desperate to fill the job, they took her before her degree was finished. She is in her mid-40s and most of her work colleagues are graduates in their mid 20s upwards. She earns the same as they do and it is more than she earned in her previous job in the media.

I would not deny that some people including graduates are having difficulty finding jobs and buying homes, especially in the south east close to London, but some having problems is not the same as all or even most having problems.

But, as in our own lives, as one profession dies another is born. Both DH and I spent most of our lives working in careers that didn't exist or barely existed when we graduated, both professions were dying by the time we retired. DH came back to work in retirement transferring his skills to another new industry, while DD's current job/career did not exist 6 or 7 years ago.

I see no reason why this roundabout of jobs and careers forming, growing and declining should change in the future

Oh how I envy my daughter! She is successfully breastfeeding her 9 month old son whereas I had problems as a new mum and no practical support, and I know I've missed a very special experience. Her baby has given her a real sense of purpose after many difficulties in life, something I now lack, having a tricky, changed husband, few friends and about to leave my job thanks to workplace bullying. I know I must make a fresh start and somehow find the courage to fight my corner and lead a purposeful life. It seems ridiculous when I think that my daughter was once a part of me - it's like envying myself!!!

I compared them because this thread is about comparisons with other generations Tilly - although as we all know that’s the thief of joy, so we should probably all be grateful for what we do have and strive to do good for our own daughters. Thanks for your kind comments from earlier, I really appreciate them

Of course I do they have such a wonderful mother. Mine was fine but not as good as theirs!

Sirchenjin, You quite reasonably, compare your Granny and Mum's lives. For me, I don't really bother to do this because the difference in my life and that of my mother is largely due to our very different personalities and the difference between the men we married. My father gave all his money to my mother, who them made him take extra jobs to earn more to give her. My husband never gave me a penny. Not ever.

My half sister was like my mother but she took part-time jobs, starting work around 1965. The difference between her and today is that she had no qualifications at all and in her last job worked as a Hospital Nursing Auxiliary. Now, I believe, people are asked for qualifications or to attend a course to do this kind of job.
For young people today who leave school with few or no qualifications, the world must be a very bleak place. Does anybody know what it holds for them? I certainly do not envy them.
On second thoughts, my half sister, or as I call her, ex-sister, has two out-of-work sons in their thirties. Last I heard they lived at home with her and both have received benefits since their teens. They seem to gather other income somehow but that is all cash in hand and secret. I suppose that accounts for some of the population. I would not be like them for a million pounds and my children will have nothing whatever to do with them. I emphasise their mother is a half sister and I am nothing like the parent we have in common, as I take after my dad who had morals and ethics.

I agree that it’s so much easier when there is enough money . I would love my DD to be able to dedicate her time to her much longed for baby . I would love to be able to retire but sadly I was not born into money . Quite the opposite . Nor did I marry a rich (or well paid ) man .

I envy and admire my daughters courage and determination to go out and get what she wants. She's well travelled at 27, has had one career and is now training as a paramedic. She has the right qualities, a detached caring nature and oodles of character. I'm a milder, sentimental type but I'm so proud to have raised her. Her future is so bright, she would like children and has options to adjust her role once qualified to suit her family life. I plan to be there always supporting and loving her.

May I humbly say that Notanan2 and SirChenjin are both really caring and deep thinking people who know a lot about the work-circumstances of which they speak. Both of you can understand the details that make things so hard for young people today and because you care deeply it may come across to some as though you were disagreeing, but I saw it as two very intelligent and highly informed women who care enormously about this issue who were teasing out the different angles that make the subject so important. I learned a lot and it made me think. Thank you so much to you both.

Sorry more messages popped up before I posted I was referring to notanan2.Mon 10-Feb-20 17:06:28

notanan2. Although I am retired, I am still in touch with my previous life (!) and can certainly endorse what you have just said.

It really is very tough on young people now. I sang for a long time in the Uni choir after retiring and the wonderful way those young Students coped with the terrible demands on their lives had me in huge admiration for them. It's worse now than when my youngest was going through uni 10 yrs ago. I felt so motherly to these youngsters! None of them could expect a job at the end, just a huge debt. Many studied what would seem like very dedicated and much needed subjects as the basis of a job in society.
I have also been surprised by the number of job-changers I know. Several Surveyors who are now computer programmers! Medical Doctor now a professional musician. Of course many Teachers would rather do anything but teach as the job is wearing them out.
I wish all the younger generation well in their search for a method of earning money and sincerely hope it will bring them satisfaction.

I feel really sorry for my younger colleagues. It's really only the ones with parental money behind them who can move up. I didn't need that it was a smoother road.

I agree, I would not send my DDs back to the 50s!

But Im middle aged and a lot of the opportunities that peaked during my career have now waned and are not available to new starters.

I know what you mean but I think they’re different. Different challenges, different opportunities. I look at the lives my Granny and my mum had and I think my mum certainly had a simpler life - but there’s no way I would want to swap with her. She didn’t have the opportunities I had and of course her pension was tiny so she relied on my dad financially as most women did. I love being financially independent and have drummed it into DD that she must protect herself financially too. It’s all swings and roundabouts

I got my post grad qualifications paid for by my employer for example.

It's no longer funded. How can you study on top of a full time job if you ALSO have to take on overtime to pay your fees?

Im not saying that progression is impossible, but people starting out now have to work harder for longer to get what we had.

My DDs are both harder working and brighter than me, which is just as well. Even so, some routes to professions are now simply financially impossible unless you have weath beind you. Im not talking just about uni fees but also about unpaid internships, having to go overseas for some jobs that used to be local, and short temporary contacts that letting agents and lenders dont like. This means that some able and keen young people have to reconsider their ambitions.

I meant to say SirChenjin I appreciate your apology for going off topic. You were, though, simply trying politely to respond. My comment above isn't critical. I always mean just what I say, so "miffed" means "sort of confused with a smile". Plus I related it in general terms to envying or not the job situation for our offsprings' generation.

I would guess that envying our AC's generation in general is not likely to be a common feeling among us here on GN. It has been said many times how much harder life is now: Two incomes needed for a mortgage, jobs very hard to find and immensely competitive. I think notanan2 pointed out the invidious time post graduates have, trying to get on a PhD course or do research. Clinical Psychologists for example, are asked to work without being paid, even though they have incurred a huge debt from doing their first degree. Many posts need a First Class degree, but if you are working at a job as well as doing your degree then it reduces your chances of a First. I looked at some of the ppl doing the PhD in my subject and realised they were not the best when undergraduates. They were not the ones who could discuss or connect ideas or even the ones who in the exam were writing at a hundred miles an hour. Getting up the greasy pole depends on money and often extra tuition at £80+ an hour nowadays. There is no denying it. How can we envy that? Btw, I know Doctors who have qualified that way.

Other jobs are very poorly paid with wages not enough to run a home. While the father is slaving away at a dull and thankless job with torturous targets, everyone else is seeming to "have it all" in terms of all the latest appliances plus big holidays so expectations are high and children's demands even higher. This is a tough world.

It was simpler for me when my children were growing up even though I struggled hard for money all the time and once took off my trainers so my daughter could wear them to a "jeans and trainers" party. Each generation has its own challenges. But today, imho, things are harder.

I must say I am a bit miffed by the internal dialogue about the lack of jobs on genomics and somehow can't relate this to the OP's question as to whether we are envious of our daughters.

Of course jobs change all the time. Doing Chemistry A level now is more like doing the first year of a degree in Chemistry in my day. What you study at university does not always indicate what your career will be. Only one of my three followed her second degree into a career. The other two, not wanting to miss seeing their children grow up, began several little businesses from home. One has now refined this into two main businesses, one of which was a beloved hobby anyway. My other at-home daughter was asked to apply for a job in a hospital after doing some voluntary work there. She had qualified, by attending courses of her own volition and now is quite highly qualified in the field.

There are many courses and evening classes that young (and old!) people can do if they are motivated enough. My children achieved this, including the one who followed her degree into her career. She wanted to gain a specialised higher qualification so studied while working and while having a baby and then took more exams. She now does a lot of research as well as the clinical work that one normally associates with her profession.

I am so proud of my daughters for finding things to do that they love and turning them into jobs from which they may earn. I just carried on working through my marriage. Not from choice, but necessity. At the age of 40 I did another degree during which my husband committed suicide. I changed career, using this degree. I think it influenced my youngest who loved talking about research. I ought to be jealous of my daughters, I suppose. I'm not at all. I'm so glad they don't have the kind of life I had! So glad!

PS I smiled when you said you are in your 50s! My eldest will be 50 soon. I'm in my 70s.

No I certainly don't. My poor daughter & her husband desperately wanted children but were unable to. 3 rounds of IVF tore them apart, they grew further & further from each other and ending up divorcing after 10 years together and 7 years of marriage. It was a terrible time for everyone concerned. We were so lucky to have our 2 children more or less when we wanted to and are now coming up for 39 years of marriage. It's not always been smooth sailing but we are so lucky compared to DD.

No I don’t envy my daughter , I’m incredibly proud of her n her achievements though, like many others a working mum, and worked her way up the ladder, I’m not envious of my sons either just a very proud mum of all my children, their lives are much busier than mine ever was, I was a stay at home mum for a few years when mine were small, I definately couldn’t cope with the pressures that they are all under with their jobs and families,