I don’t know how to handle this, help please

I fell for you, and think.people making out the wrong things I understand that you are wanting to answer your childrens questions, a year of.being I'm 'isabels' family seems quite a.long time, could you not sit down with your, husband, mil, bil and partner just over coffee nothing formal and and let them know your children are asking questions and you aren't sure how to address them, hopefully a year from now all will have sorted itself the children will be a bit older, and as you say they all get on.
Good luck.x
Ps no a few kids who will take their clothes off at this age, it won't continue for ever.

muffin I well remember your posts of last year. I am thinking "Isabel" is an only child who has had mummy all to herself. Suddenly there is man who gives mummy lots of attention and then a new gran and other small children she has to share things with. Its not difficult to see she has had a lot to cope with. Equally your children are expected to share their presents, not like the ordinary toy box many grans have. It would probably be a waste of time trying to sort it out with your MIL so how about chatting to the other mum. You could explain, as best you can, some of the ups and down with your either very eccentric or very cruel MIL. She might be grateful for the warning!

Well, perhaps someone could look at why a little 3 year old, left in the sole care of a man who isn't her dad, and isn't allowed to direct her, in the company of people she doesn't know might be wanting attention?

All 3 year olds push, shove, and aren't keen on sharing.

Usually though, they have someone who loves them to guide them in the right direction; its a shame this little girl seems to be lacking that.

pinkquartz. Yes you are right. Secrets are a very difficult issue and best not used at all even as I had intended here as a little joke in a very light-hearted way. I think I was being influenced by the simply lovely weekend i was so lucky to have with my grandchildren who all get on so well and if I were to say "Uncle Grant is a bit weird but it's a secret so don't tell him, he thinks ping pong balls are baby cabbages, but don't say anything". the children would all giggle like mad until one of them, usually "F", would almost certainly say to uncle G "You are Weird!". Anyway, I agree, this not allowing presents to be taken home isn't an appropriate issue to try and make a little light-hearted joke about. I was just trying to think of a way to handle it to make it less painful for the poor children who seem to be punished for being good!

Perhaps I might just say openly, if she were my MIL, "That's weird! You give a present to my children than take it back from them at home time. Then you let another child take their present away. Anyone would think you don't really want to give my children presents. It's not as if they have done anything wrong. They share nicely. They don't push the baby off her ride-on toy..." But that would probably set the cat amongst the pigeons. Maybe its time the cat was among the pigeons? This MIL seems to do whatever she wants irrespective of how it upsets her grandchildren. I think it is time she knew she upsets them. I would want to question this woman about what she is doing to her grandchildren. There's a part of me that's so angry for poor Muffin's children and poor Muffin who cannot even say to her DH that her MIL is not being fair to their children for fear he will become aggressive. This is a very disturbing situation.

I presume that Muffin's DH and her BIL are brothers? Could Muffin's DH talk to his brother about Isobel's treatment of the other children? Or is not safe for Muffin to talk to her DH about this, even concerning his brother?

There are lots of lovely bits of advice on this thread. I like grandtanteJE65 above and agree "stop pussy-footing around this wee girl and ask her nicely to adhere to your standards when she is playing with your children." It is as important for your children as it is for Isobel.

I realise the wetting issue can be seen as tricky but I did know in the past two little girls who would deliberately not use the loo or potty and would wet their pants at exactly the most difficult moment. It has been known as a behaviour children use for attention. If I remember correctly, girls were more inclined to wee and boys more inclined to no.2 to get attention and boys would do it to a later age even up to 6. Bed-wetting is totally different.

Sorry wrong post , that will set the remainers going .sorry

I voted leave and would do do again and again . My reasons are many and I would need a day to spell them all out .My flagpole and flag will be up before the 31st and I can’t wait to see the back of that dreadful blue flag which will by then have a star too many .Thats another load of EU money gone on replacing the hated flag

I agree that children should learn to share toys when playing together, but a toy that has been specifically given to Johny should not be appropriated and taken home by Jeanie, especially when Johny has always been told that toys given him by Granny stay at Granny's house.

You really need to take this issue up with your children's grandmother. If she refuses to see your point of view, I would tell her that the children are upset by the things she is allowing Isabel to do, so you will not be coming around when Isabel is there for the next while.

There is no reason at all why you should not gently correct Isabel if she hits or pushes one of your children. Tell her nicely, "Isabel dear, we don't push each other".

I have never in all my 50 years experience of children heard of a child who took off all her clothes to attract attention, I would tell her promptly to put her clothes back on at once so she doesn't catch cold.

Wetting herself deliberately , I have heard of, and of children who wet themselves when distressed or angry. Are you sure she is doing it deliberately? Whatever the reason, pop her into dry pants and make as little fuss as possible.

Do you know Isabel's mother at all? If so, it would be best to try and have a word about what goes on when Isabel is at your MIL's as I gather the child's mother is not present.
Start by saying that you really want all the children to get on with each other, but the different way your MIL is treating them is causing friction and ask her advice on dealing with it.

Your children's questions should be fairly easy to answer: No, Granny is not really Isabel's granny, and no, you do not know why Granny has taken down their photos and only has Isobel's about. And, no, you are not going to ask Granny about it, as she may do as she wants in her own home.

It is fairly common for children to have toys that are kept at their grandparents, so no point in making a fuss about it, as long as the toys stay there.

It takes a village to bring up a child, so stop pussy-footing around this wee girl and ask her nicely to adhere to your standards when she is playing with your children.

If your BIL mentions the matter tell him honestly what the problem is.

When my two girls( now grown up ) had friends round I often suggested they ask the guest what she would like to do and hopefully they would all enjoy dong it together. They did say why do we do what our guests want but when we go to hers we have to do what they want. I simply said they have bad mannered mothers. They understood and have grown into lovely mothers themselves.

*Tillybelle

i do agree with most of what you have written but not the keep a secret part about their Granny.
Children do tend to just say stuff and it will not help the set up at all if the DH finds out what his wife has said about his mum.

either tell the kids you don't know ask your Granny or tell granny she needs to talk to the kids to explain as they are confused.
I would never tell any child anything to keep secret.

Anthea1948 Yes!

I can understand that Isobel is the "new girl" and therefore getting used to a new group of people. But I fear people here are urging her to be treated too gently even at the cost of the other children and her own welfare. She is tough enough to be told not to push a 1 year old off a toy. Indeed I would say that not to tell her that is not in her best interests. She will not find it too much if she is told not to do something and why not. At three children tend to play alongside each other more than with each other. Also people are speaking as if Isobel has not been to a play group/nursery school at all. I would have thought she attends something and has been in day-care probably, or how has her mother managed for money? Usually a single mother has a job.
Anyway, since these are imponderables, the way Muffin speaks about the situation of them meeting at her MIL's suggests that it is not new at this stage and that her children and Isobel have been together at MIL's for quite a few visits. I would also like to reiterate, if a 3yr old pushed a 1yr old off a off a ride on toy, I would certainly speak to the 3yr old, quietly and firmly about why we do not do that. I ran a play group years ago and am a Qualified Teacher among other things I did as well as Teaching. I think it is actually not kind to the errant child to let them upset other children without putting it right. They will wonder why they have no friends and will become increasingly aggressive.
What a terrible situation for Muffin! Maybe her BIL needs to discuss with his new Partner the need for him to be able to deal with Isobel's behaviour especially when she is absent. It isn't just his problem, it affects everybody with whom Isabel comes into contact. No little child can go out unsupervised and this is what it amounts to when Isobel's mother is absent, and when she is present too from what Muffin tells us!

Muffin, the thing that struck me most about your post is how you're bending over backwards not to be judgemental and not to upset anyone involved. But now it's you that's having all the stress and that can't be right.
If your main issue is with your children's questions then what's wrong with telling them the truth, even if it's 'I don't know'? It's not your responsibility to answer for anyone else's behaviour and you shouldn't have to be in a position where you have to make excuses for other people.
As others have said, you could explain to your children that everyone parents differently and have different priorities and that the way you parent might be different to other people's way, but you believe it's the best way for you and yours.

Oh goodness me feel for you Muffin you sound like a great lady and doing your best with your parenting skills, what a difficult situation poor Isabell wetting herself sounds as though she’s mixed up bless her heart, your MIL sounds very odd, I would have to ask the MIL why she has taken the photos of your children down that to me is a smack in the face

Dee1012. I agree. I think this gives insight into a very difficult situation in which Muffin has been forced, I would say coerced. She has been told to withdraw from having her own opinion and worse from feeling her own feelings in order to give in to two aggressive and controlling bullies. I am extremely worried for her. That she couches everything in an apologetic caveat of trying not to offend us says so much. She is treading on eggshells, even here on the thread. It is a big sign of being in a coercive and controlling relationship. The "advice" she was given may have been well intended in trying to avoid Muffin being faced with violence, but it is very poor Counselling in that it does not address the situation at all and leaves her and the children with a threatening man. It also tells her to alter her behaviour, which is actually what the Law looks out for in recognising coercive behaviour: "actions which cause the victim to change their way of living." It also specifies as an example that the victim has a "fear that violence will be used against them" which is why Muffin does not ask her DH about his mother's actions.
The government website is:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/482528/Controlling_or_coercive_behaviour_-_statutory_guidance.pdf

I certainly wouldn't be trying to explain the ins and outs of everyone else's relationships with children.

The brother in laws (weird) set up with Isobels mum and whether they're married or not is their own business.

I really feel for you Muffin. This does sound a tricky situation to me. It wouldn't be if your own children hadn't picked up on why this little girl is being allowed to behave in, frankly a rather naughty fashion. If it were not for that you could just ignore it. As it is, you've genuinely asked for help and advice and been met with citicism and unhelpful remarks from a few GNs.
I'm afraid, I don't have any constructive advice to give, except to say to MIL that perhaps in future any gifts given to the children should be allowed to go home with the children. She could keep a few toys at her house to be played with by all.
I'd also ask about the family photos, that smacks of either favouritism or perhaps she's just trying too hard to welcome the newcomers into the family, at the expenses of others feelings.
Obviously don't voice this to her!
Other than that, try to grit your teeth and be as jolly and welcoming as usual and hope this little girl learns a few manners by osmosis.
I don't agree with those who say she's "only three" and therefore this is normal for her age. Even three year olds can learn, in fact they're veritable sponges and soak up everything.
Good luck, I'm a bit old school myself and have three well adjusted, kind, well mannered, happy adult children to show for it.

I would just say something like I'm sorry darling I isn't know, perhaps it would be best to ask Grandma. You can't be expected to answer for your Mil. And you be will being honest to your children which is important.

muffinthemoo
(Looks like my referencing - stuff I said I'd get on with - will have to wait a bit!)
You said:
"I am sorry if my tone appears defensive."
I'm aware that you are trying hard to not offend anyone, Muffin. I am feeling more and more concerned for you. It feels as if (and I stress 'feels' since I only have as much info as we have here) you have a difficult life. I would go so far as to say a life in which you have to deal with a DH who "responds aggressively." and a MIL who does things which "I felt upset about", but which you have been told you cannot talk about or raise with the one from whom we would usually seek support - our DH - because he responds aggressively.

You are treading on eggshells in your home. Your husband cannot be consulted about his mother's austere rulings over the children's possessions. Both your husband and his mother combine in a considerable force to rule in your life and your children's lives about how you should live. Now a situation of conflict has arisen in which your children are being treated most unfairly and are unable to understand why. You have your hands tied by these threatening people about how to deal with the situation. You can't do what a normal person would do. That is you can't just talk to them about the unfairness. This is because they are not normal people. To become aggressive when your wife asks you about the behaviour of his mother in keeping his children's presents at her house but letting a new child take the children's toys away, is not normal. The person who advised you not to raise it with him might have been right but it was not the permanent answer to your problematic situation at home. He is not reasonable to become aggressive about an issue where his mother is hurting his children.

On top of this, the controlling behaviour of the Grandmother suggests DH's upbringing was anything but straightforward. The two of them are hardly a warm and loving, caring and fair-minded pair. Poor Muffin! To be told keep your mouth shut and don't upset them makes it sound like your responsibility when actually it is their personalities that are at the root of the problem.

I would like to urge you to get more advice. The first counsellor we find is not always the one best suited to our situation or to us. You deserve support. You are trying so hard not to upset anybody, it shows in so much of what you write here. You are so aware of not infringing the rights of others, I fear you have forgotten that you and your children have rights too.

Dear Muffin, please ask for Counselling. If it means suffering in silence for a while waiting to get a Counsellor, so be it. But regarding the children, I can only say, that my experience with my own is that I regret I did not say, from when they were as young as 2 or 3 onwards, something like, "I don't know why Granny does that with your cousins (Or Isabel) and I don't think it's fair. I am so proud of you because you behave like good and kind people. If Granny lets your things get broken/taken by Isobel, I will try and replace them. This is because I do not agree that your things should be given away by Granny. Perhaps she has special reasons that she has to keep secret at the moment. But I love you and you deserve all your things."
I know when my children were young they did not understand why their cousins were favoured for being cruel, rough and mean. I wish I had simply said to them that I did not like what their cousins did and that what they did was wrong.
My husband didn't support me in anything. He was a covert or passive narcissist.
I will be thinking of you Muffinthemoo. Try to feel more confident. It is obvious that you are a good and kind person. Maybe people take advantage of you? If it is possible, could you cut down on the visits to their Granny?

Having read it yet again, I would like you somehow to get across to your children a shared secret joke that you all know that "Granny is a bit weird" and that "her weird idea is that when she gives a present to you, it still belongs to her!! But if you say anything she will get angry so you keep this a secret!" If you can afford to make it up to them by having a little present to unwrap after going to Granny's and having to relinquish whatever she un-gave them, they may get some comfort from knowing that they do get something that is really for themselves after seeing this weird granny!

Sending you lots of love Muffin! Be bold and brave and believe in yourself! ??(tractors can go anywhere!)

Surely when you give a child a present, it becomes theirs to take home and to have as their own. The only odd thing I find in your original post is the toy issue. Why does your MIL give presents but then expect to keep them? Otherwise I see no reason at all for anything else in the situation to be 'tricky'. It's just family life - the usual mixture of stuff. My grandchildren call my husband and I by our first names - if Isobel is doing the same re your BIL and your MIL, that's surely OK, isn't it? I don't get the need for 'eggshells' at all.

Sadly it does seem kids who are allowed to run riot as they please do end up badly off in later life, one of my elder children took under her wing the child of her partner (result of a one-night stand he had before my daughter even knew him)at about 3,he used to come weekends etc,my daughter treated him like her own child,then when they had their own kids together,treated them all same,then after awhile childs 'real' mum didn't send him for a bit,let him run wild on estate where they lived,doing as he pleased,staying out with older kids,(age about 8/9)! He got in trouble,went to live full time with my daughter&his dad,was settling down living a real family life,we as a whole family,treated him same as all other kids in our family,he WAS part of all our family,then he started visiting his mum.'bad' behaviour started again.he went back to live with his mum full time,lost contact with his dad(through no fault of his dads) now he's in a young offenders institution.its such a shame for that poor young boy,as when he was around our family he was such a good kid!His own mother has a lot to answer for!(I've brought up 7 kids,mostly on my own,and they all have good manners,and either respectable jobs or are in study at college/uni.) I now have GC in differing ages,(older to younger) and all of them know how to behave.Its how you're brought up that makes the difference.

Blended families can be tricky. I speak from experience! I am always honest with my grandchildren and answer any questions. Children are very receptive and adaptable on the whole.
I would advise not to get involved and never pass any judgment that involves adult relationships, parenting or anything else! And comparing children and how they behave is not a good idea.
Regarding Isabel, she is going through a transition and 3 year old are always testing the boundaries. My grandson ( now 5), has been very difficult over the past 2 years, and I know people have judged his behaviour. However, he is a lovely little boy and is now much improved He just needed time and understanding. My granddaughter (3) was forever wetting herself, but is now completely dry. Just be patient and worry less!

I suspect that Muffin has tried to assert herself with her MIL and has found that it just makes life uncomfortable all around. If her husband won't back her, it puts her in an invidious position especially as she has her hands full with a young baby and I don't blame her at all for not wanting to cause confrontation from any quarter.
Muffin, your problem is going to be how you are open and honest with your children without them repeating you in front of MIL and DH! I think we all have to, at some stage, to say to our children that parents are like teachers and they all have slightly different ways of doing things. For the wetting in the wrong place, taking off clothes, etc., you just say that they know a different way of doing things that makes them more acceptable in polite company. Answers about family can be run along the lines of, "Legally they are not family until BIL marries Isabel's mother but we're happy to have her as family before that happens." I think with the toys that MIL insists upon keeping can be handled in several ways. You can either get them a little something extra that they take home and say something like, "This is to make it the same as Isobel," in front of MIL and hope she gets the message. Or you can suggest that the children ask MIL for her reasons. Alternatively, just explain that some people have quirky ideas and this is just one of them. It may be that MIL doesn't keep Isobel's presents because she isn't family so may never see her again if the relationship goes south.
It is good to get children understanding that all parents do things differently. It will hold you in good stead when they are teenagers and everybody else's parents let them stay out til all hours!
May I suggest that you give your MIL a framed family photo for Christmas and redress the balance. Meanwhile, just dismiss the questions about photos with an explanation that a change is good as a rest and the good thing about photos is that there are normally new ones hung to ring the changes.
None of these solutions will change the basic problem, your MIL and husband, but at least your children's fears/worries can be allayed for the short term. If I am honest, I suspect that you will never change their attitudes towards you but only you will know when you have had enough.

Sarahhellenwhitney,it IS muffins buisness if it involves the treatment (by isobel)(and by their gran) of her own children!

Yes play down the wetting and attention seeking behaviour of isobel,the wetting could be due to finding herself in a whole new situation,and indeed the 'naughty' behaviour?(her own mum doesnt seem to understand this?)Also,is isobel allowed to behave this way in her own home,or is her mum stricter there,so she's rebelling when elsewhere?But isobel also may not like these enforced shared visits,with other kids& adults she hardly really knows? Maybe she too would benefit from quieter separate visits while she gets used to all the new people in her life? She's only 3 after all,it must be overwhelming for her if there was previously only she& her mum?are these visits so her mum can have time to herself whilst your BIL takes isobel along?could her mum not go with them and have her own time to herself some other time?i certainly think a different toy arrangement is first-GP's need to give your kids the toys meant for them,to have at home,any that's isobel's own to her,then get in some 'shared' community toys to play with together,just for grannys house,which NONE of them take home.(as suggested,charity shops or jumble sales,or freecycle are places to get some for cheap or free if GP's aren't rich.Then tackle the photo situation.tell her in no uncertain terms you find the removal of your kids photos hurtful and confusing,to you & your hubby,and also to your children,and get her to explain why she's done so.Take it from there.Tell your children yes they have to share their grandparents now with isobel as she has none of her own and yes as their uncle is now 'being like a daddy' to isobel,that makes their GP's like grandparents to isobel also.anything other than that they won't understand at so young an age.

muffinthemoo
sorry to appear again
I really would like to feel that you are able to say, when Isobel starts some bad behaviour such as that which you describe,
"I am not going to let my children be exposed to this kind of behaviour. Especially when it goes uncorrected. We shall leave now."
I realise the children may not want to leave so prepare them in advance that if Isobel misbehaves you will all leave and go and do something they love - a meal out if it's meal time, or to the park or take something nice like a kite - I am sure you will have good ideas.
As for nobody being permitted to correct Isobel! That is preposterous! I would ignore it. If a bigger child, even one I had never met, pushed my small child off a toy as you describe I would say very sternly to them, "That is unkind! You must not do that! It is X's toy and she is using it. We do not push people off toys."
I cannot understand your BIL actually, he must love her a lot. It would drive me insane seeing a child being created into a monster. I gave you my true experience above. I could give you so many examples of their lives. Once one was expelled from a normal State Comp. His mother thought I would join her in suing the school (I had a position in Education at the time). She never, ever, saw that what the boy did was wrong! It wasn't one incident but a whole long list of things over a long time during which the school kept asking the parents to come and talk to them.
Children who are enabled from toddlers to do as they please, no matter how antisocial, become criminals and leave a huge amount of painfully injured victims in their wake.