How often do you see local gc

I think there is also merit in teaching children that everybody is different, not everyone will fit into their way of thinking, or agree with everyone else, and that's all ok, because we're all individuals.
A lot of people who have had less than perfect family relationships say that it taught them very well how not to be.

There is merit in not showing children that you accept relationships that make you unhappy, or else they may accept unhappy relationships in their own life later on

Not sure that necessarily follows notanan.
Children need to learn to form their own judgements as they mature and also recognise how to get on with people, to accommodate without sacrificing their integrity and to negotiate relationships.
One of the worrying things about the “snowflake” nature of young adults who need to be assured of “safe spaces” in universities in an intellectual sense, who need to be “warned” about literature containing challenging ideas or who cannot cope with the notion of un PC language in a historical context is that they have been denied this opportunity to analyse and evaluate. They have been sheltered to the point where they cannot cope with ideas outside their own experience.
Little children will emulate their parents and if Mummy and Daddy regard granny/grandpa as “toxic” it is inevitable that the child will not develop a relationship itself.
I am not talking about violent or abusive grandparents , just a MIL/FIL that somebody doesn’t get on with.
Maybe there are other family members who are similarly seen as “toxic”, maybe neighbours - it is not an enormous step to see how that could extend further to ethnic groups.
How will a child ever learn tolerance if they do not witness it?
I am frankly appalled st this tendency in the younger generation.

MawBroon

Personally, I don't think a failure to get on with someone would be toxic. Then again, due to my personality, I tend to get on okay with most people. But I could see how, for example, if you had two people with very dominant personalities it could be difficult.

I would define "toxic" more as things such as passive-aggressive behaviour, outright aggressive behaviour, attempting to "parent" an adult child/CIL, that type of thing.

Those kinds of behaviours are not acceptable. I think in this case it's reasonable to say in the moment, "I am bothered by your behaviour and would like it to stop." If the person refuses, then you change the subject or, if the behaviour continues or is more serious, you leave.

Sometimes cycles need to be broken so that children can grow up with healthy expectations from relationships.

A RELATIONSHIP can be "toxic" without either involved parties being evil to the core.

Children will grow up to accept the type of relationships that they have seen modelled within the family. There is merit in not showing children that you accept relationships that make you unhappy, or else they may accept unhappy relationships in their own life later on.

I am sceptical of this instant vilification of anybody you don’t get on with as “toxic”.
Based on what I have read, there are some “toxic” writers of posts around.
Life is not as black and white as some (maybe younger) mums seem to think. A few more decades of life have taught many of us to recognise that nobody is perfect and there are frequently two sides to any argument.
Live and let live ?

he uses guilt all the time. To the point where my husband questions whether or not he was a good grandson to mils mother ( and he WAS! We called and took her for trips, often on our own and sometimes after one of her guilt laced calls). He was a good grandson and her constantly in his ear about gmil makes him question in after she recently passed. That is an awful thing to do.

Your husband can't change her behaviours but he can change how he reacts to those behaviours! Just as you can change how you react Diktat if you want to. But as I said previously you appear to have a strategy with your MIL that you are happy with, so I'm still not entirely sure why you are telling us all about it and asking how often we see our GC!! Our experiences are just not relevant to yours are they!!

I don't think keeping GC away from a toxic person is using the children as pawns or as a "reward" for good behaviour.

Rather it's choosing not to allow your children around someone who is toxic.

If you're allowing your children around another adult, you're conveying to your children that this is a "safe" person.

Now, I do agree that "toxic" isn't necessarily a firmly drawn line, but there definitely are some behaviours I won't tolerate:

guilt trips
manipulative behaviour
undermining the parents
attempting to go behind the parents' backs (e.g. telling a child that they can stay overnight at yours without making sure it's okay with the parents first)
having "secrets" with a child and not telling the parents (note: a surprise, such as a planned birthday present for a parent, isn't a "secret")
buying big gifts without checking with parents first or buying toys the GP knows the parent doesn't allow the child to have

That kind of thing. If children see it as a "me and GP against the parent" thing, the GP is teaching the child that it's okay to not listen to your parents or to go behind their backs. That's not okay.

In those cases limiting the child's contact with the GP isn't a bad thing.

I would advise you to seek help too, Diktat
You obviously have a lot to work through with a therapist. As I am assuming you are in America there must be plenty to choose from.

posted before I finished

Inherited traits.
Just wonderful!

I don't agree with using children as some sort of prize for 'good behaviour'.

I agree, it's dreadful, isn't it MissA

Of course, your DC have one quarter of the genes of your and your OH's parents. And, of course, a DC could turn out to be just like a grandparent.
That could come back to bite you one day too.

PECS. I won’t let my kids be subjected to the same guilt trips that mil puts her own children through. She uses guilt all the time. To the point where my husband questions whether or not he was a good grandson to mils mother ( and he WAS! We called and took her for trips, often on our own and sometimes after one of her guilt laced calls). He was a good grandson and her constantly in his ear about gmil makes him question in after she recently passed. That is an awful thing to do.

It sounds very controlling. Not healthy for anyone including the kids being "used" by a parent. If you don't like your MiL that is fine but don't pass it on to your kids. Let them decide as they grow up if they do or don't want a realtionship with their grandmother.

What ever is the point of threads like this? If you have emotional or psychological problems within your family, accept that and either move on or get professional help.
Attempting to use and exploit children as some kind of means of asserting control over other people isn't acceptable behaviour.

A whole thread just to say the same thing Diktat?

Does it make you feel better?

I don't agree with using children as some sort of prize for 'good behaviour'.

Generous? You are setting an example to your children about how to treat grandparents. You may be a grandparent one day.

Dil17. I like you. A lot. ?

Once a month is all I can stomach of my mil too. And that’s being generous.

My daughter sees my parents nearly weekly. We spend most weekends with them.

As for my MIL, once a month if that (our doing). The reason is she doesn't respect us as parents and myself and her son (my husband) have both just had enough of being ignored.

Grandparents seem to think that they have some right to see their grandchildren as much as they did their own children growing up and it's just not true!

I'm so glad my SIL is pregnant finally as it means she may leave us alone a little. MIL that is, not SIL

During school holidays everyday during term time 5-6 times a week. 1st G/S is autistic and we like to give D/D a break when times get difficult, and then we have the wee one about 3-4 times a week after school. I love it when they come in and the first thing is a hug for nana Jaci. I know this makes me very lucky to have this relationship with the boys and know as they get older it will change but I will enjoy it while I can.

Diktat you are still here then! Just ignoring some questions being asked about why you posted or what you hoped to gain/learn from your post! I am sorry that your MIL is as you describe. It is clear you have a clear strategy to deal with that that suits you! So why did you post?

Muffin just don't go there!

Agnurse. You are correct - mil is a guilt tripper and manipulator. I know in the future she will try to bypass me and invite my child to her house for sleepovers and for weekend outings; she fancies herself as a third parent type role

Muffin - I don’t know if this is correct... but did I read a post from you where your mil ruined your birth experience? How’s that relationship turning out for you?

Ha. I looked up talking smack.

It means to rubbish another person apparently.

talking smack

Who,apart from agnurse has mentioned smacking? Like you Maggie, I'm also . Why do posters invent their own scenarios that have never been mentioned in an OP? It's like Chinese whispers.