Grandparents rights

Goodness me granjura there is a lot of variation in expectations isn't there.

One of my best friend complained to me that her daughter sometimes didn't phone her EVERY DAY. Her daughter works full-time, with 2 little ones! I did tell her that it was unfair to expect daily contact- and she was very surprised- but accepted it with good grace. Her daughter sent me a Thank You card a bit later. Some of us parents need to take a back step sometimes - but yes, dils and sils should also be more tolerant and give time for grand-parents, even if they do not particularly get on. However, perhaps, just perhaps, there is a good reason for that, and too many demands made, in a few cases?

So right - all of your comments! Grandparents don't have rights but we feel so lucky to have privileges and they shouldn't be abused by laying down unreasonable expectations. I am often happy to know I've had a few minutes with the grandchildren and all is ok, and other times I'm lucky enough to spend hours with them, or babysit whilst mum and dad are busy or having a night off. Go with the flow and fit in, is what suits us all in my family.

I am a grand-mother and so love to see my grand-children, but would never expect my daughter and sil to spend every week-end with us, or holidays! Yiikes! One of my colleagues was expected to spend every Christmas with her mum, and when once, when the kids were teenagers, she said to her mum that the next Christmas they would come and have breakfast and spend the morning with her, but then wanted to have the rest of the day on their own. Her mother didn't speak to her for ... 4 years.
Sometimes grand-parents do expect too much - and perhaps sils and dils do not make sufficient effort either. Give and take - my kids and grand-kids are always welcome, but I reserve the right, perhaps one day, to say no I have other things planed, and we are going to Timbuctu for Christmas this year- and of course it goes both ways.
We all need a bit of space sometimes, and not always be in each other's pockets, no?

Amabazza I am on the other side of the discussion,I offered the chance for GD'S father's family to have access ..against high court judges advice...I was wrong ..she was let down several times by PGFand her aunty,it was heartbreaking to witness her anguish and anger we have also had the minutae of our lives scrutinised by CAFCASS....but it is my LO's right to know her family ,not their God given right to demand when it suits them to see her....no offence or sides taken but it is the children I feel for in all the turmoil to all the loving grandparents who are suffering through adult childrens actions

Amabazza good luck and let us know how you get on, won't you?

wow thanks for that Carol. You are the first one I have spoken to who has been successful and with the end results being so good.
We are there again next week so fingers crossed.
Yes i am on tender hooks to make sure that I totally tow the line.
Our GS loves being with us at present and makes it obvious infront of her too.
So hopefully that will help us next week

As you say amabazza not a decision that is taken lightly. To go through the court, there needs to be very good reason, and no grandparent who finds themself in this position is going to be humoured by a judge if it is clear they are doing this just to exercise some power to make their children be brought to them. This is not what those grandparents who are denied contact are looking for, but the best interests of their grandchildren, whom the court will see have had a meaningful relationship with their grandparents that was of clear benefit to the children. Any grandparent who is prepared to throw open their doors and have a Caffcass officer assess every aspect of them in order to determine whether they should be allowed contact needs to be on solid ground, show they have had continued, beneficial contact with the children, and/or can offer something to them that improves their wellbeing.

When my son and I were struggling to have contact with my grandson, the times we saw him decreased and often ended abruptly, and each time we were with him during that year, he was clearly unhappy about the disruption to his life. He voiced his wishes to spend time with me and his daddy, and when he cried at home, ex-DIL would send abusive texts declaring that her husband was responsible for ruining his life. He has told his daddy that he was unhappy at home because his daddy had taken him back! It's heartbreaking to deal with, knowing that you have to toe the line and behave appropriately at all times because this will be examined by a court in due course, and might be seen negatively if you are accused of bringing a child back a few minutes late, or saying something out of turn.

We now see him often - I have seen him twice a week over the last month, and my son sees him about 5 times a week. He picks up the keys to his new house this morning, and later today will be taking my grandson to look at his bedroom and choose how he wants it to be decorated and furnished, then he will be staying overnight regularly as soon as my son has moved in and put things in enough order for them to be comfortable. The court gave my son permission to write up the access document, after admonishing ex-DIL about her attempts at parental alienation, and she has given informal agreement which will be rubber stamped by the court in a couple of weeks' time. We have a happy boy in our midst again. It shows that you should never give up - keep plugging away with the best interests of your grandchild at heart, and examine your conscience the whole time - are you doing this for you or for the child? I know we benefit ten times over, and it is wonderful to be with him again, but I would have stayed back if I thought for one moment this was not what my grandson wanted or needed.

This subject is very close to my heart as I am presently going through the courts to see my GS. Denied contact is with my D and SIL.
It's not a decision we have taken likely and is financially ruined us but my D and SIL are not good parents and choose to g thru life using people and much to my disappointment, still are.
The Judge in our case, took an instant disliking to my D as she showed her true colours in court. She didn't have any respect for him let alone me.
Hence we see him every 3 weeks. No contact with D and it can stay that way for me.
Everyone reacts differently but when you are put in this dreadful situation and all other avenues have broken down what else do you do?

This post more than any other has made me reflect on my relationship with my grandchildren and their parents who live abroad. I realise I have always wanted to see the children and hear from my daughter on a weekly basis(on Skype I mean) but I have spoken to my daughter twice and had an email twice-in response to information on how I was collecting the children to look after them in the summer. I understand I think a lot more about my role in their lives from reading this.

Maniac (((hugs)))

inbetween I took time to consider my behaviour as a grandparent.
I can truly say that I never made demands to see my grandson.I was available for babysitting,picking up from school etc,didn’t give advice,talk about my ‘rights’ or make criticisms of my daughter-in law.
My GD(160 miles away) I only see 3/4 times a year .Other gran lives nearer so sees more of her.I accept that.
After my son’s divorce I saw less of my GS- only in my son’s contact times.
For over a year now I,my son and family have been denied all contact with my grandson due to conflict between my son and exDIL. It’s been a heart-breaking year for me but even more so for my son,who at times has felt suicidal.He’s been to court but is still denied contact because of lies .
Dads have few rights -_Grandparents have no rights_
That is the current law. Our local support gp states that _
Grandchildren’s rights are most important.
I have seen my MP.had a letter from Hon.Michael Gove MP sympathetic but little hope of a change in the near future.

I’m sorry you are feeling angry and distressed.
My Mum and in-laws were far way from us,so saw my children at holidays or if they came to stay for a few days. My children missed out on Granny-time.
I wish I could persuade your parents/in-laws to treasure and make the most of the time (how ever little) with their grandchildren.
Two thoughts occur.Could you persuade them to join Gransnet? or move further away!!
Best wishes

If just one family has avoided denying the grandparents having contact with their grandchildren, that must be a good thing? Good luck inbetween

I do not think that it is seen as an imposition inbetween; I hope that some of the comments from the assembled grans have been of help.

It is good that you have come to a decision as to how to proceed. Nothing is going to wave a wand and make it perfect, but at least you have a plan of action now and your MIL will know that you mean business and that your primary concern is the wellbeing of your children.

These sort of family problems are a minefield and it must be very frustrating for you to be in this situation when all you want is for your children to have good parents and grandparents and for the family all to be pulling together.

But you have been dealt a difficult hand with this particular person and all you can do is exactly what you have done: set your priorities, make your position clear and stick to your guns. It is never likely to be easy, but at least you know what you think is best and can set off in that direction - with fingers crossed! Good luck!

Just got back on here, Meercat you sound like a great nanny/granny can you come me my childrens? Everyone needs to be some whaat flexible and I understand the want to spoil like a few too many sweeties and stuff like that.

Im going to go with the inviting them to our house and if they dont want to come round then that is their issue not mine and if that becomes the case I will then write a letter to them and hope to clear the air and state what me and my partner want in relation to our children and that if they are not willing to play fair so to speak then access to the children will only be at our house/family gatherings and when we want/have the time for it not what they want.

I was not expecting the relationship to be this bad as all of my family have always atlest appeared to get on with inlaws/grannys/nannys etc sometimes better than their own direct family.

Hopefully this will all get sorted in a way and then I wont have to keep imposing on all you lovely ladies.

I think what I am saying greatnan is that we have only heard one side of the story - I have great sympathy with inbetween as the situation sounds dire - but we have no idea what the gran in this situation might say. I am not saying that it is "six of one etc." - we have no way of knowing whether that might be the case because we have not heard the other side. There is indeed, as Carol says, no justification for treating others cruelly.

And I guess that 25 years of social work makes you realise that people who seem utterly irredeemable often have histories themselves that have damaged them. That does not mean that I condoned their behaviour - I have met abusive parents, who were themselves abused - that does not excuse their behaviour and protecting the child comes first, but it does help to explain it and to influence what you do about it.

I sincerely hope that inbetween is able to find some way of dealing with this impossible-sounding situation, and I am not suggesting that she is at fault in any way. But she is clearly asking herself whether there might be a better way of dealing with the situation that will help her family to feel more comfortable and I admire her willingness to seek the advice of other grans on this forum.

Welcome Meercat - you set out the complexity of different family relationships so well, and as long as everyone can be flexible and collaborate in the interests of the children, that's all we can ask for. Your post is not too long at all.

Hi, First post here so forgive me if I get the conventions wrong.

I totally agree with those here who have said that GCs have a right to a relationship with their Grandparents. In the sad cases where family break up or whatever means that contact is cut off I can understand why Grandparents would want to fight this. It would break my heart not to see my GCs and I would fight with every ounce of my strength for that contact.

This is not the same as saying that I think I have the right to have that contact all on my own terms, when and how I want it and that the parents just have to give me what I want.

I have a very different relationship with my Daughters son than I do with my Sons two children. This is because that is how the parents want it. My daughter's son stays with us often when they are going out or in school holidays when they work and we love every minute. But he is still their sone when he is with us and we play by their rules. (Well, more or less a little spoiling now and then slips in!!)

My daughter in law has her own family near her for babysitting and, although I don't think she has a problem with us, she is less ready to let her children come to us. We do get to take them out for days sometimes and they do bring them to see us and we go over but it is different.

I would love to have the same close relationships with sons children but it is not what their parents want so we work with what we have. We do have a good relationship with them but we are not such an important part of their lives.

The only time I got frustrated was when my son told his sister that he is a bit jealous of the relationship her son has with his Granddad!!

As a young Mum I could easily have found myself in a similar situation as Inbetween but I was lcky because my MIL lived 500 miles away so it was a once or twice a year thing. I know I would not have tolerated it so I can hardly complain if my DIL wants to do things her own way, and nor would I wish to. (She is lovely by the way)

Sorry if this is too long, put it down to inexperience.

I am sure there are situations where both sides have made mistakes or have some kind of personality clash - I merely objected to the statement that there are always two sides to the story - it simply is not true in every case.

in drug abuse and violence there are not two sides but this seems to be a difference in parenting choices and it is not too much to expect that this family who are blood relations should be able somehow to find a way to come together again.
The first step must be to ask where you yourself are perhaps going wrong. Both sides just pointing fingers does not move this family forwards. What is done is done and can't be undone.
The next question is how does this family move forwards as they remain related to one another and will come together again one day.

inbetween are you never tempted to simply tell her where to stick it.

You sound very patient. You are trying a lot harder than I would.

I get the impression there are two sides to inbetween's story, but I agree with Greatnan there aren't alwys two sides when one side is being abused and cruelly treated and the other has done nothing to incite, trigger or justify that abuse. There is no justification for treating other people cruelly.

Mishap - I don't know why you insist there are always two sides to any situation when it clearly is not true. Do you think there are two sides to it when a man beats his wife, or parents abuse children? Some people are just treated very badly without any just cause and it really doesn't help to be told that it must be 'six of one and half a dozen of the other'.

There are always two sides to a situation - I know that we must all sympathise with Anne and Graham in their sad situation, and I do not think that anyone is suggesting that they are to blame. No-one can truly get inside another's head, and and there is always history that we do not know.

Anne and inbetween are two sides of the problem and it is interesting to everyone to get these different perspectives.

All we can do is support inbetween in her efforts to get this right for all the family - it cannot be easy and if getting it off her chest in this forum helps to lighten the situation and give her strength to deal with it (perhaps a bit lightheartedly might be the way forward!?) then that is good - however long the post.

And we can give Anne our support and make sure that she knows we understand her sadness - but we do not have the answers to what is clearly a complex situation that has been ongoing for some time.

For my part it makes me more appreciative of the good relationship I have with my children and GC - I do not think I have done anything to deserve it and could just as easily have been in one of these difficult situations. There but for the grace....and all that.

She will just have to like it or lump it if she doesn't accept a reasonable letter from you, won't she 'inbetween'? If she does decide to comply, start as you mean to go on, present the dinner and say 'I/he cooked it, we like our food, but you're welcome to make a sandwich if you don't.' Leave them to fit in with you and don't accommodate her behaviour any more. Good luck!