Advice for a small fruit garden, please

We've just taken down a 13 foot leylandii hedge ,we're putting a new 8 foot fence and 2 espaliered fruit trees in the space which is around 40ft .they will sit against the fence and still give some privacy ,We'll plant gooseberry bushes and other soft fruits in front of the trees .Th landscaper thinks there would be room for 3 trees butI'd like a good spread without overcrowding

I think you are being optimistic if you think you can plant more than one tree such a confined space .

Spacing between fruit trees should be generous to allow for competition-free root and canopy growth. For MM106 trees we plant 5m apart, for M26 3.5-4m apart. This spacing then allows sufficient light to reach the ground so that other species may then be planted in subsequent years if desired (herbs, soft fruit)

I would suggest espalier -trained- apple/pear/plum against a fence- provided it is your own and is not likely to come down or be replaced.

Loopyloo - and others thank you - oh! Rhubarb, yes, I must!

Grateful for all the help and suggestions.

What would you plant under the fruit trees in my 3x3m area. I'd like it to be a 'wild' minimum care area rather than 'posh'?

Be aware of the impact on your neighbours of trees planted near your fence. Will they be close to your neighbours house? Will they cast her garden into shade? Will your tree roots drain her soil? Trees can make all kinds of conflict and personally I don’t think we should expect our neighbours to have to share our trees.

She will be entitled to cut down anything, roots or branches that encroach so you could end up with a very odd shaped tree.

My neighbours cut down their trees that were at the bottom of their garden but four feet from my side wall. I was very grateful and they did it because their neighbours tree had caused subsidence in their attached garage!😱 and they realise send what their trees could do to my house.

I guess I’m saying keep your trees to yourself🙂 The roots will travel a long way.

I love a damson tree and the white blossom is beautifull. And a pot or two with ericaceous compost with blueberries in them. And a few strawberries..... and some rhubarb?

You'd be fine with the fruit/wildflower combo.

Dig a big hole for each tree and add fork some compost to the soil at the bottom of the hole. Mix some compost with the soil you took out too. Use that to refill the hole around your tree when you plant it. The tree will get the nutrients it needs.

This is a step-by-step guide:
www.gardenersworld.com/how-to/grow-plants/how-to-plant-a-bare-root-fruit-tree

If your tree is in a pot you need to do just the same but you can plant a pot grown tree at any time of year.

When you sow your wild flower seed leave a clear space around the tree trunk, at least half a metre all round.
The soil you plant with wild flowers doesn't need any extra compost at all.

Leave a pathway through so you can water your young trees without squashing your young meadow if you can.
I really want to see the photos next Summer! (please)

Now I really am unsure. I will go for fruit trees but am now unsure of wildflowers under them, as wild flowers don't like rich soil, Lixy says.

What then would be good to grow on the ground under the two or three trees of my to be mini orchard?

Questions, questions

Hi Menna!
You may find helpful suggestions from a couple of previous threads about fruit trees and pot-growing -
www.gransnet.com/forums/gardening/1314321-Fruit-bushes-trees-in-pots-advice-please?msgid=29597009

Wild flower gardens after paving stone removal -
www.gransnet.com/forums/gardening/1314870-Thoughts-for-starting-a-garden-at-this-time-of-year-please?msgid=29615939

Hope this helps!
Will watch with a vested interest for my new plot!

Yes, I think so.

You would need to make sure the soil for the trees is in really good condition when you plant them - they'll be there for a very long time. Dig in lots of tree compost if you can and there's a product called Rootgrow which is recommended to help trees develop strong root systems.

Wildflowers need a poor soil so I would take a guess that that is what you have as it has been under paving slabs. You wouldn't want to put compost or any kind of enrichment on that area.

You can get soil testing kits that will tell you what sort of soil you have.
Sounds as though you'll be needing a good bench so you can enjoy your space too!

Now I'm thinking maybe I have getting say two fruit trees in the 3 x 3 m space and put the fruit bushes (gooseberry / redcurrant / blackcurrant) in another part of garden. (Given Lixy's comment about fruit and light).

So back to the 3 x 3m area - would two or three narrowish fruit trees work, with a v good wildflower mix.

The link here is to an article about the different shapes of fruit trees. It talks about spacings as well.
As you get towards the end of the article it talks about different ways of training column trees - some exciting ideas there.

www.chrisbowers.co.uk/article/the-essential-guide-to-columnar-fruit-trees/

25Avalon's advice about asking a specialist nursery is a good idea.

Fruit needs a lot of sun to ripen, so your bushes will do best away from the shade of the tree.

Menna sorry not been back as I’ve had a mega stress afternoon but Lixy has explained it very well. If you buy a fruit tree from a fruit tree specialist they will be able to help you choose the best tree for your plot. Apples flower and have fruit at different times depending on the variety you choose and they could advise on that too. They won’t charge to give you advice either and you don’t have to buy from them. Ken Muir are very good.

Yes thats it Lixy. Thank you.

Tall, slender and a fruit tree would be a great combination!

If the tree is going up, say, to 15feet how close can the fruit bushes be to the tree?

Oh dear, it's so hard to visualise a garden before it's there! It really isn't complicated; it's just that there are as many different gardens as there are people and plants come in all shapes and sizes.

Have a good think about what you want to garden to do for you. So far you would like:

something tall and slender to give privacy
a fruit tree or two
somewhere for your fruit bushes
a wild flower meadow

Am I anywhere near the mark?

Fruit trees come in two parts.
There's the bit that goes under the ground which is the 'rootstock'. This bit determines how big your tree will grow.
The rootstock is grafted onto the trunk, usually a few inches above the ground. The top part of the tree will be the type of fruit you would like.
So you can have. for example, a Cox's apple on a dwarfing rootstock so it'll grow to about 6 feet or an ordinary one that'll grow to 15 feet or more.
When you plant your tree just remember to keep the bit where the two parts are joined together above the ground.

Don't despair - keep asking the questions and somehow we'll get there - lots of people on here know a great deal about gardening.

' a tootstock such as M26' sorry don't understand this.

Taking up the kind comments so far... Maybe I'd be better having say a rowan tree at back instead of apple and fruit trees near, and maybe having dwarf apple as lixy suggests in another part.
Oh dear, it is complicated

You want M27 rootstock for a dwarf apple tree or you could think about a plum tree such as Victoria or Csar on pixy rootstock. The rootstocks govern how tall your fruit tree will be. If you go for gooseberries, blackcurrants, red or white currants then see if you can get standards. Rather than bushing at the bottom, these grow at the top of the stem. Easier for picking and take up less space.

This sounds like an exciting project - good luck.

I have patio (dwarf) apple and pear trees in pots. They fruit well but would be even better planted into the ground. They don't take much space.

I used to have a fig tree which gave great shade - you do need to restrict the roots of figs or they grow to be enormous but they can be trained up against a wall or fence so they don't take up too much room.

My gooseberries were in a raised bed at our old house - 2 bushes in a metre square bed. I would guess at about the same for blackcurrants.
Can you put a net over them to preserve the fruit from the birds? If so. then you might want to arrange them in a square to make netting easier.

Wild flowers would be great at attracting pollinators into your orchard - just make sure you leave an area of bare earth around the trunks and it'll be fine.

3 x 3m is not very big for fruit.

I would plant one apple tree on the edge as long as you excavate far enough down and fill with good soil and maybe one gooseberry and one redcurrant as far from the apple as possible

Otherwise blackcurrant Ben sarek can be grown closer and you would get 3 plants in there

Don`t immediately plant anything too close to whatever you choose, there would be competition while establishing

The apple would need to be on a tootstock such as M26