Veganism........

Your DS and DiL need to speak to their health visitor about this. I believe that there have been cases of young children put on vegan diets failing to thrive. They will need to take specialist advice. The link to the Vegan Society is: www.vegansociety.com/ and the page on child nutrition is:
www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-health/eating-well-early-life

There is a lot of advice on feeding children and the main site contains recipes and meal suggestions.

Completely unexpectedly son and DIL have decided to go vegan for health reasons. At first they said they would not impose this diet on 2 year old daughter but 3 weeks in to the diet they have decided to feed her a vegan diet too. DGD stays with us a lot and we are struggling with this decision. Any advice gransneters?

I am not a Vegan , too fond of my meat and fish .
However, that is the choice for some and is okay too !

Square dog, I can understand your defensiveness after being questioned by someone about the interest value of your post ! I am not veggie or vegan but have often considered it, and try to buy meat that is humanely reared. I know this sounds strange , but one of the reasons I am not vegetarian is that I find the dairy industry repugnant, but do not have the willpower to give up milk and cheese, or leather for that matter, some think I may as well eat meat. when I once asked a colleague about the leather issue! she replied"we all have our hypocrisies" I liked that! I admire you for being a vegan, and I think it is a very interesting topic, and probably the reason you are so often challenged.

My vegan son is that way because diary causes him gastric problems. As a baby he couldn't tolerate cow's milk for the first two years of his life. He is vegan because that diet suits him and for no other reason. He wears leather shoes, has a fabulous big dog who is fed properly and his children ate meat until they were old enough to decide for themselves what they would be, and that was aged 16 years.
He does lapse because he loves cheese but it does cause him problems.
Therefore, he is vegan for health reasons and not because he is averse to eating animal products.

Absent
I agree. I've met lots of people who seemed to have become vegetarians for (unspecified) health reasons, and have been tempted to say 'What do you think your canines are for, then?', but refrained, of course.
My diet has changed over the years - less meat, more vegetables and most recently an attempt to cut down free sugars as much as possible.

Humans are clearly an omnivorous species able to eat both flora and fauna – you only have to look at their dentition to know that. (Also designed for sucking eggs it would seem – sorry janeainsworth). However, I am inclined to think we have the balance wrong in the West at least. The Western diet comprises a ridiculous amount of animal protein, which is not only surplus to requirements but is also often found in company with high levels of fat, and much smaller amounts of vegetables and fruit. My feeling is that it ought to be the other way round.

I find it interesting that everyone who is or has been vegetarian seems to have adopted it for animal welfare reasons.
Does anyone think a vegetarian diet is healthier than an omnivorous one?
And if so, what benefits do they perceive?

Being a vegan must be so hard - one presumes they don't use leather or other non-food animal products either. Then there's the problem of getting enough nutrition, such as some B vitamins. And of course the problem that we are an omnivorous species, leading to fears of nutritional difficulties.

I was a vegetarian for a few years, but for the sake of my children, who wanted to eat like their friends, I went back to meat and fish. I soon felt healthier, and have never looked back.

Many food animals only exist because we eat them, and in our (Australian) slaughterhouses they are killed humanely, unlike their likely deaths from predators in the wild.

I'm happily omnivorous, but I do understand the feelings that lead to vegetarianism. I'm just glad I got over them.

Mind you, I'm utterly outraged at the wickedly cruel slaughtering that goes on in some of the Muslim world, such as Gaza, where we export some live animals.
www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/eid-halal-slaughter-in-gaza-worst-animal-cruelty-in-history/

We must stop, get our own halal butchers, and export the frozen meat. But that's another story.

DD2 has been a vegetarian since she was 14/15 and her daughter - my 6yo DGD - has never had meat nor fish. Both eat a very varied diet, lots of pasta dishes, soups, stews and stir fries. They are not averse to soya mince or veggie sausages or burgers which makes it easy to produce standard dishes e.g. spag bol for them. I used to make a meat and a meat free version of things like steak pie with a V or M in pastry on top but now I usually just make one big pie using veggie sausages, mushrooms and onions which everyone enjoys. Soya protein has less fat than meat and is also much cheaper. As they both have lots of eggs, beans, cereals, cheese, milk, yoghurt, etc. and their fruit and veg is mainly organically grown in their own garden, I do not think there is anything missing from their diet and they are both fit and healthy. Now that DGD is older she has been introduced to nuts which have become her snack of choice and she also has plain rather than milk chocolate for the iron it provides.

The only problem I have feeding DGD is the number of things which unexpectedly have gelatine as an ingredient - requires careful reading of packets.

Every vegetarian (many) and vegan (2) I know feeds their animals ordinary dog or cat food, either dry stuff or wet.

But, (sort of) back to one of the questions. Pets (usual kind, cats, dogs) what are the fed on if kept be vegetarian or vegan owners?

Daft thought, but what about people who choose to keep certain snakes? Even little ones like corn snakes are usually fed on frozen day old chicks or mice.

My mothers late Labrador loved nothing better then "pick your own" raspberries when the netting was lifted off for us to pick. She would toddle along behind helping herself to the low growing ones.

My aunt's dog, who could be trusted alone in a room with a rib of roast beef and wouldn't touch it, found raw carrots irresistible and frequently stole them from the vegetable rack. Absentdaughter's recently acquired puppy seems to be following in his paw steps, except he steals his from the neighbour's vegetable patch.

Dogs are omnivores, though their principal diet is meat. My parents had a labrador who pinched and ate cauliflowers straight from the garden. Mind you, we also had a cat that was very partial to Swiss roll. The exception that proves the rule?

I thought dogs were mainly carnivores, like wolves, as well as being scavengers.

My cousin raised her first child (now 17) as a strict vegetarian (although not vegan). She was a colorless almost ghostly white child and at 14 was severely anemic. She then began having fits which may or may not be connected. After many visits to doctors, specialists and dietitians she now eats a very small amount of meat (mainly chicken) but looks permanently sickly to me.

My neighbours three small children seem to be thriving on a vegetarian diet, but they do eat eggs and cheese. I know about the eggs, because they keep chickens. They haven't had them long enough for me to know what they will do when they cease to lay.

This could open a whole new can of worms organic spaghetti.

Absent - I don't think it's a good idea for a baby to be vegetarian unless the parents really know what they are doing. It's hard enough to get some children to eat!

Riverwalk, ill-mannered people one just ignores. My sister was a vegetarian for many years. I was interested in the reason she decided to become a vegetarian - and why she decide to cease to be one. I certainly never felt a need to 'challenge' her decisions.

I don't mind people asking about vegetarianism - a lot of people seem on the verge of it and genuinely want some information. I love my food and am not precious about it. I love to cook and am usually complimented on my veggie cuisine. (I don't live on salad!)
However, there are some who seem threatened by the concept and can be quite rude.

Riverwalk, ill-mannered people one just ignores. My sister was a vegetarian for many years. I was interested in the reason she decided to become a vegetarian - and why she decide to cease to be one. I certainly never felt a need to 'challenge' her decisions.

There have been quite a few instances of pets being fed inappropriate diets because their owners are not meat eaters themselves. Cats are indeed carnivorous – you only to have to look at their teeth – while dogs will eat anything, including sofas and pillows. There have also been cases of babies fed dangerously inappropriate foods because of their parents' diet.

Presumably, Bags, vegans wouldn't keep the kind of pets that need to eat meat. I have heard that cats need meat whereas dogs are omnivorous. Of course, a self-respecting cat would go out and catch its own meat source!