Reducing contact because my heart just isn't in it.

It's fear lovethepuppies; the fear of it happening again because his estrangement almost broke us.

It's taken years to rebuild our lives which began by moving away 4 years after we were estranged. Looking back to that time I don't know how we got through it and I don't think we'd have the strength to do so again.

InRainbows, I wonder if my mother not having family around due to moving away from family has led her to expect more from her children in filling that gap?

Smileless, I can understand how you could get to that point. Sometimes there's been a lot of water under the bridge and the work needed to rebuild from scratch must feel quite overwhelming. Some people also have issues that we need to distance ourselves from for our own protection. Grown children sometimes too, as painful as it is. I suppose that's advice I can take myself in reverse.

I agree InRainbows that no one should feel any guilt for protecting themselves, but when you love the one you're protecting yourself from, that's easier said then done.

I sometimes feel guilty for never wanting to reconcile with our youngest son who estranged us because 'that's not how mothers should feel' but I have too, to protect myself.

lovethepuppies you deserve so much better. What a kind and thoughtful person you are. You should never feel any guilt for protecting yourself, hard as that may be with family.

I think something must happen to people who become the way you describe your mother. Some sort of painful event in early life that stunted their emotional development. Would it be easier to view it that if they are not reacting to your absence in the normal ways of hurt and effort to change and are reacting with anger and manipulation instead that your distance is not harming them as much as you fear. Instead it is control they have lost and no one should be open to allowing another to control them.

You are being so mature and sensible about this, lovethepuppies - I really do applaud you 👏🏻

Yes, we have a history of things where she expects to be involved in everything and centered. She will say things like, "I was at your child's birth!" The subtext being, "I'm such a good, supportive mother I went out of my way and came to support you when you gave birth!" The reality is that she invited herself and came without being invited, when I told her I wanted it to be just me and my husband. To this day, I regret that I didn't tell her to leave. I did for my second birth, as I wasn't taken by surprise, and the tantrum on her part wasn't pretty. So this is what I base my statement that there is no point trying to communicate my side of things to her. She has her own reality.

If it comes up more naturally, I will be more explicit about what it was that finally flipped the switch for me. Factually though, not up for discussion.

I just want to make this as painless as possible for everyone. It's not an easy transition. Your support helps. Thank you.

Yes, that makes sense; thanks Allsorts .

I think you're right about not going in for lengthy explanations that you know will be unproductive, especially if you've tried this in the past lovethepuppies.

Creating a new normal is never easy and takes time but I do believe that with patience and in particular your mature approach to this, it will be achievable.

I hope that your mum will be able to not only accept the changes in your relationship but be at least grateful that she is still a part of your life.

Yours is a difficult position lovethepuppies as your treatment has not been so drastic as to lead to completely cutting off your parents, which happened in my case regarding my father and although sad, was more straightforward.

However, as Meghan would say, you have “your truth” and the truth is your mother makes you unhappy. Why should you put up with that? Why not be more ruthless? Without going back through the thread, I believe you are the eldest and that can bring unnecessary feelings of responsibility.

Your mother is reaping what she has sown and I would be more draconian and look to myself at this stage without guilt.
Not many children turn against their parents without reason.

I think User meant some people love their parents and are heartbroken and not relieved when they die. I know I was heartbroken.

I think there's truth in every response, so thank you. It's true that my mother isn't going to accept any explanation that doesn't suit her. Lengthy explanations trying to get her to see my side of things aren't going to be productive.

While there is obviously a lot of stuff that went before for decades, the situation referred to from private messages is about what happened when I tried to organise a visit, which was more for my mother than myself. It has been something of a tipping point.

This provides context for the response that I did give, which was that she could have heard my voice if the visit had worked out. There hasn't been any response to that. I have said we share lots in messaging and I will call for my father's birthday next month.

I still have no intention of going NC. The relationship and contact we have is just under revision. I suppose that was always going to be a difficult process while everyone gets used to a new normal.

Just pull back and the relationship may be a lot better. Contact no conflict is my motto it has worked for me. Birthdays Christmas and small things in between thank god for mobile phone and texting.

Smileless2012

Maybe as you're alluding to what the OP has revealed to you in private messages stillawipp your post @ 13.11 would have been better sent as a private message.

No, it’s fine thanks, I’m happy with my post

I agree MarieElla that vagueness would be the way to go.

Maybe as you're alluding to what the OP has revealed to you in private messages stillawipp your post @ 13.11 would have been better sent as a private message.

You're doing so well, so far, with this method of distancing.
Yes, vest give her a brief explanation.
Something vague too.
Maybe, "hi Mum, I'm using my phone less for talking and more for messaging these days"
Or suggest voice notes/messaging?
I do that with my toxic sister...about once a fortnight.

lovethepuppies

I'm now getting complaints that she misses my calls. I told her we chat plenty over text but she wants to hear my voice. I'm going to have to give an explanation, aren't I? Release us both from the expectation.

Yes, I think you now should say something OP, in particular the issue which you told me in private messages...she needs to know what an issue that is for you.

It isn't unusual though is it User.

Sorry, I don't understand your last sentence.

What I meant is unusual is when a child feels the need to drastically reduce contact with their parents.

I envy those who won't feel even a drop of relief when their parent(s) pass.

That's a ridiculous thing to say and not true User .

I've never seen an EP on this forum rather see a victim continue dealing with a toxic parent, rather than doing the right thing for (their) health and well-being and the responses that lovethepuppies has received here support that.

You asked in your OP lovethepuppies if there's a way to gently pull back with as little pain to anyone as possible and reducing the number of calls and not engaging in visits is I think the only way.

Your mum has noticed the reduction in communication so my advice FWIW is to respond with something along the lines of 'I'll ring when I can', rather than trying to give a detailed explanation which IMO will only shine a spot light on what's changed.

When we have a parent concerned about an AC reducing contact the advice is to take a step back; reduce the number of 'phone calls and texts and keeping any contact 'light' with no pressure on the AC.

As your mum is unlikely to take this approach it's up to you, having made the decision to reduce contact for your own well being, to continue rather than enabling her to pull you back in

Going low rather than no contact isn't unusual, for those who choose to do so it's preferable to estrangement and when it works, it can bring the peace that's being sought.

I hope it works for you lovethepuppies but if you reach the stage where for you estrangement is the only way forward, I hope you'll be comforted by knowing that at least you tried .

You can spend the entire day crafting the best possible explanation, finding the perfect string of words that respectfully takes into account both parties feelings, and it won't make a difference.

A normal, mature parent's response to your explanation may go something like this: "Oh my god, I had no idea I was making you feel this way. I'm so sorry and I understand why you won't take my calls anymore. I will do better from now on, and my line is always open if you ever change your mind!"

But you will never get that kind of response, not even close.

Instead, as she feels her proximity to you (i.e. control over you) start slipping, she will panic and begin utilizing manipulative tactics to bring you back into the fold. Guilt-tripping, gaslighting, bringing in 3rd parties (usually other relatives/family friends), and so on.

There will be no genuine respect for boundaries, no genuine understanding, and ultimately no genuine peace for you as long you attempt to hold low-contact with such toxic parents.

That's why the usual advice for dealing with such parents is no-contact. Except on this forum, that's for estranged parents. On here they would much rather see a victim continue dealing with a toxic parent, rather than doing the right thing for your health and well-being.

Good luck, but I see a long, turbulent path ahead of you as you attempt to navigate this unusual situation.

I'm now getting complaints that she misses my calls. I told her we chat plenty over text but she wants to hear my voice. I'm going to have to give an explanation, aren't I? Release us both from the expectation.

That’s great love the puppies & I wish you well!

Thank you Smileless. And thank you everyone else for helping me work through this.

FWIW I agree that what you've described is reasonable middle ground lovethepuppies.

It's good to know that you've been able to be totally open with your husband and have his support.

Peace and relief are priceless .

I was able to have a good talk with my husband today. He didn't know that my first thought when I knew my mother was planning a visit was to think about how I could lose weight before she came. That is only one issue though, the others being things I haven't posted here.

We have agreed that the daily brief text communication is the best way forward. I am not going to phone. I am not going to visit. We are not going to have them visit. If they ask why, I will tell them why (but not about the weight thing as that will be denied and it's not really the most pressing thing in the equation).

I feel this is reasonable middle ground with maintaining safe contact without too much distance. We'll see how things go, but I have peace and relief for now.