Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Thanks Allsorts and your right about our pets giving us so much love, so pleased to see us when we get home. x

I think an awning would be a very good idea, I would not be able to get the thing up though. Dogs and cats have so much love to give and accept us how we are. Uncomplicated unlike children. Little Ziggy seems a feisty little character and tgerexwill be no shortage of dog sitters.

Lovely to hear about your doggie's progress Smiles I chuckled when you said about him attacking your feet .

Thinking of getting an awning, has anyone else got one?

Nice day everyone xx

Morning all, hope you're all OK.

It was awful here yesterday, hot and it felt as if there wasn't enough oxygen in the air.

Little Ziggy is doing really well. He didn't wake up the first time until 4.30 am this morning which surprised me as he slept a lot yesterday because it was so hot.

The previous two mornings he went through to 5.00 am. We've put some fake grass out on the decking and 75% of the time he toddles outside for the toilet and inside, 99% of the time he uses the training pads.

He responds to 'no' so we've all but stopped him attacking our feet; comes when we call him and if one of us has been out, he runs up to greet us .

I agree Allsorts that being on the autistic spectrum doesn't mean that someone doesn't know the difference between right and wrong.

Having that sense of relief because we're no longer embroiled in their drama and targets for their nastiness isn't something I don't think any of us thought we'd ever say Spring.

Describing the pain as being back stage instead of front stage is spot on. It takes time but I hope that for anyone reading this thread who hasn't yet reached that stage, there's hope and comfort knowing that they will get there in the end.

Thank you Allsorts. Still have ‘off days’ but they are fewer and farther between now and I bounce back from them much more quickly. Is good to be able to come on here when I need some reassurance and understanding though.

Spring, I am glad you and your husband are happy now. You cant live in that knife edge for the rest of your life.What you say is correct, most families go through some sort of tragedy, this is ours. .

We tried for 9 years sending birthday and Christmas cards and the occasional message. Apologising, asking what we could do to try and repair the relationship. Each time no response….which slowly and steadily destroyed us. Eventually we realised for our own well being we had to let go and rebuild our lives. Which we have done, and tbh living now without the constant trauma feels like a release. We are happy. Very few families get through life without some form of tragedy….estrangement is ours. It is possible to heal, or at least for the pain to become backstage rather than front stage. Our last communication with our EC was to tell them we loved them. I am content with that. As said above, we can’t influence another person’s actions. We can’t change the past. We can use the time left to us to live a good life however.

Into the Ether, I tried for at least six years, can’t remember exactly, still send cards, why i don't know, luckily both my grandchildren never forgot me and I see them. I no longer want a relationship with her, you don't treat anyone as I was never mind your mother who adored you. In time it gets easier but it is hard to accept for a long time. I am glad I tried everything or I might have regretted it. I came to the conclusion she just left me behind as her wealth increased. I might be shouted down for this but even if your d is on autistic spectrum she knows right from wrong, don't beat yourself up, we are all human, do our best and thats all you can ask of anyone.

Estrangement is often referred too as a living bereavement IntoTheEther because we grieve for and mourn the loss of the adult child whose estranged us.

You say that you used your daughter for emotional support due to the problems you were having with your son which you now see was wrong, and for which you have spent the last 19 months apologising for.

You mentioned neglect, which I understand to mean neglecting her needs when relying on her for emotional support and creating a 'glass child'; a child that is not seen/seen through, and yet you also talk of you and her father dividing your time so she wouldn't miss out on the things she wanted to do because of her brothers, while also ensuring that you had 1 to 1 time with her.

I am in no way attempting to underplay how she would have felt about and struggled with being an emotional support for you, just pointing out that there were also aspects of your parenting that were an attempt to mitigate some of the negative impact on her childhood, because of her siblings.

You didn't get everything right, no parent ever does and having listened too and taken on board what she's told you, have apologised which is all any of us can do.

My husband and I never instigated attempts to communicate with our son when he estranged us. Having received a hand written note on Christmas Eve that we were no longer a part of his and our GS's lives, I did pen a brief response.

Several months later through his brother, he requested a meeting with his father but that didn't go well due to the level of anger and bitterness he exhibited, for which there was no explanation.

Just over 3 years later when we were moving out of the area I emailed him to say 'goodbye' and assuring him that my love would always remain. His response was so vile that I simply emailed my thanks because he'd shown me that saying goodbye was the right thing to do.

It can be as you say a 'catch 22'; you can be damned if you do keep trying to make contact, and damned if you don't. She may see you failing to make contact as a sign that you don't love her but on the other hand, she may see your non acceptance of her wish for no contact by continuing to do so, as not loving her either.

You D during your row told you that she never felt she was loved by you and her father. A couple of years into our estrangement while visiting our eldest son in Aus., he told me that his brother didn't know if we loved him. I told him that if the first 27 years of his brother's life weren't evident of our love, then nothing we could do or say now could make it any plainer.

If you were to ask for my advice,it would be to send one final message to your D. Tell her you love and miss her which is why you've been continually whatsapping, but you realise you shouldn't have been because for her sake and your own, you need to accept her decision. So that is what you're going to do and why you'll no longer try contacting her again in the future.

It wont be easy but IMO this should also include birthday cards and cards at Christmas. We have seen estranging adult children here on GN, saying how they dread getting a card from the parent(s) they've estranged when it's their birthday or at Christmas.

No contact means no contact and the only one who is in a position to change this, is the one who initiates it.

7 months is still early days although for you it will feel like a lifetime so she may change her mind, and you may have more chance of her doing so if you leave her alone to see if spending the rest of her life without her mum in it, is something she really wants .

Thank you for your kind words. 💐
They are appreciated.
My daughter is 24, 22 when we had the row.
She has only used one of those terms, parentification. But she wasn't wrong.
She was 11 when her brother was born.
He used to reverse headbutt and bite me.
I used her for emotional support looking back and that wasn't fair.
On some family holidays her father and I used to divide and conquer. He would take her to places she wanted to while I took the other two, so she didn't miss out. I did have my own 1-1 with her though.
Her father is a decent man but avoidant.
He is very rational and easy going whereas she sees me as controlling. I think that is fair but I also have tried not to be, as my father is the same.
I know she has gone NC as she needs that, and I know I should be happy that she is living her life but I am grieving someone who's not died and it is excruciating, being in limbo like that. I ought to be grateful that at least I know how she is doing. I did, do, and always will love her and so I need to let her have her peace. None of that stops it hurting and it does hurt.
I don't want to trigger any of you so I'm sorry for asking, and please don't respond if it's too painful, but when did you all stop all attempts at communication? It feels like a catch 22. If I don't keep trying then that is evidence I don't love her as I didn't try hard enough and if I don't stop that is the evidence that I don't respect boundaries.
I am not dumb, I have read enough in the last year to know that EC see the trying as a 🚩 but would me stop trying be seen as rejection?

Hello IntoTheEther and a warm welcome to this support thread. I'm sorry that you need to be here but glad that you've found us because those of us who are estranged, know how important it is to know that you're not alone.

I understand the importance of not giving too much information in case it's identifying, but I'm wondering how old your daughter is.

You say you're guilty of neglect, parentification and creating a glass child. Are these things your daughter has accused you of or things that you've attributed to yourself, and what has her father's role been in all of this?

You say you've been co parenting for years so has her father's parenting differed to your own?

Of course I understand if you don't want to answer but a little more information would be helpful.

As you've discovered whatsapping and self flagellation isn't going to help you, and wont help your daughter either. Neither will 'swallowing down' and trying to block out the intense feelings of grief and pain that all of us who have been estranged have experienced.

You must acknowledge these feelings and vent them. If you want to cry then cry, and shout and scream 'into the ether' then do so because trying to hide and/or deny these feelings isn't healthy as many of us can attest too.

We've been estranged from our youngest son and only grand children for more that 13 years. You ask if it gets any better, well for us I think easier is a better word than better.

It's a wound that we feel is healing but will never heal completely and where it has healed, we bare the scars which will never fade.

You do not sound like pity party and never need to apologise here for expressing your grief, pain and sorrow. This is what this thread is for and why it's been here for more than 12 years, because we all need somewhere to talk and being able to talk to the only one's who can truly understand because they're also estranged, is priceless.

Take care and now that you've found us I hope you'll keep posting .

(Seven years)

Thank you for replying btw. 💐 I appreciate the contact. And your wisdom. I cannot alter how she thinks, no. And she already feels like a stranger now. Which makes it harder. But the whatsapping and self flagellation isn't helping me come to terms with the loss. I know 19 months is early days but she hasn't spoken to her grandfather in seven, so I have little hope she'll ever talk to me again. I am sorry. I know I sound like a pity party.

Autistic, sorry. And I don't think she does know I care. In our row, she said she'd never felt loved by either of us. Which was said in anger but also hard to hear.
She lives alongside her father, like ships in the night. They are still talking. We have been co-parenting for years now, living apart with two sets of children, as the younger ones weren't coping in the schools where we lived. There will therefore be abandonment issues there too but she chose to stay with her father as she was happy in her school and didn't want to change to another. I am grateful he is there for her and she has at least one parent she is speaking to but it puts stress on our relationship as he cannot or will not mediate in case she does the same to him. I do not want that for either of them either.

Is not being ND processing information differently from the expected norm. I would ask who is normal? I don't know anyone who is without some issue. You would need a crystal ball or magic powers and so much patience to not do something triggering. Stop beating yourself up there's no easy answer. Stop with the What's App, she knows you care, you and your husband get on with your life and enjoy your time together.

If it sounds hard I am sorry but you cannot alter how people think just how you react.

Good evening,
I am new here. I just wanted to ask if it gets any better. Time isn't healing and all the feelings I've been trying to swallow down and block out are overwhelming. These are feelings of guilt and grief.
It has been just over a year since my daughter last spoke to me, 19 months since we argued (Xmas) and 7 months since she told her father she wants nothing more to do with me.
I have spent the last 19 months apologising on WhatsApp, as she won't take my calls and asking what I can do to make amends.
I said awful things. She did too but that doesn't excuse it. I am meant to be the adult. I have reached out but she does not respond. I am guilty of neglect, parentification and creating a glass child. She hasn't said this but her two siblings are ND, I suspect she is too, and I only first saw it in her brother as it presents differently in girls. But I can't come to terms with the loss and I am making it worse by messaging into the ether. I tell her I love her or am thinking of her once a week, once a fortnight if I try really hard. As I know me whatsapping will be triggering or overstep boundaries.
When will it feel less painful? Will it ever feel less painful?
We are broken.

My brother tired 3 sorts of statins before he found the one that didn't give him muscle cramps in his legs. Funny enough its the one I am on but he has to take a higher dose as he has permanent atrial fibrillation 2 stents in his heart plus one in his brain.
I was lucky only have slight furring in my right artery and the statin is to prevent further furring and needing a stent. I would rather take the statin than have another angiography. Had no side effects from the tablets they don't interfere will all my other tablets.

People like the covid jab fall into 2 camps those pro statins and those against. I am pro anything that will keep me healthy and still able to do all the things I want . I know what my future holds but am fighting to keep my mobility for as long as I can. I got out of needing a wheelchair after years of using one. I will take anything to kept me out of one . As I do not want to be dependant on anyone especially my daughter. I know what that cost me healthwise. But I couldn't abandon those who needed me .

The people I know who came off them said they did so because of aching muscles Allsorts.

What a ridiculous thing for your friend's doctor to say Yogin . I'd have been furious.

Ziggy had his first vaccination yesterday and weighed in with a 100 gram gain ; still tiny though. I went to pay for a repeat prescription to discover to my horror that I didn't have my debit card .

I'd last used it in Tesco's on the 15th so had no idea it was missing. We went there and were told if it had been handed in, they only keep them for 24 hours before destroying them.

Back home I 'phoned the bank to cancel it and order a new one and also to check that my payment in Tesco's had been the last time it was used; it was thank goodness.

As we can't leave Ziggy yet, I went out this morning to get what I can't buy in Lidl's armed with Mr. S.'s card. Got my Tesco's shop and paid for it only to realise I'd forgotten Poppy's food, so went back to get it. Went to the self service check out which I hate using and then back to my car only to discover that I'd left the dog food behind!!!

I was so set on checking I'd not left Mr. S.'s card behind I walked off without the dog food. TBH I was relieved to get home without further incident.

How can such a tiny thing (Ziggy) be so exhausting .

Two friends went on them because doctor advised it but they both came of them after they did a bit of research. One developed muscle pains.

Good to hear your doggie is recovering at home with you Stillawipp may he have many more happy & healthy years with you.

Allsorts I think they do [want everyone on statins]. I told my friend all about it yesterday and she said her doctor told her she must go on them for life otherwise she will have a heart attack and die! My friend has no idea what her readings are, she is slim, fit & healthy, swims a few times per week.

Sorry stillawipp forgot to say glad your dog is on the mend.

I am on satitns but for me its worked out well. After my week in hospital Janiuary 2025 put on statin to stop further furring in my right artery. Last year my cholesterol was 4.4 this 3.5. They usually say 5 or below is good. But cholesterol is made of good and bad cholesterol. Not sure what the numbers are for that. I have had low sodium levels for well over 10 years but they where stable and had to be on restricted fluids so I don't lose more. My blood test early in the year my sodium levels where in the normal range for the first time. My lasted test for my liver and renal again my sodium levels where in the normal range . So the statin must have done something and helped my sodium levels which I am happy about. I still stick to my 8-10 drinks a day as its what I am used to . Got a review with my GP in September over my lasted diagnosis so will ask about how the statin helped my sodium levels . 4 things I have been diagnosed with but on medication for all of them.

The great thing about moving here is I have GPs that care am healthier and getting treatment I was denied for decades living in the black country.

Yoga, I do wonder if some doctors want everyone on Statins.

Stillawhip, glad your dog is now on the mend and pain free. I haven't had another pet since last experience as cannot face the inevitable although miss the company very much.

Whiff, you are so right, anyone new to estrangement can come on here and we all understand and don't judge, there is a good life after Estangement but it just takes time.

Smileless2012

You're not diverting the thread stillawipp. We get to know one another because of estrangement and support one another when ever it's needed for what ever reason.

I'm so pleased she's OK .

🙏🏻🥰

I found this thread because of estrangement but stay because of friendship. Estrangement is awful but it doesn't have to rule our lives . We aren't just mom,wife's widows and grandparents, dads ,husbands, widower and grandparents.

Yes we talk about estrangement and newly estranged given help ,support our stories ,advice if they want it but a safe place to say what they need .

I love hearing about people's pets,holidays especially places I never nor will go to . See things others do and talk about what I do.

Estrangement at the start dominants our life's . But with help here it fades into the background. Its not easy especially if you never know the real reason why.

But we may be parents but first of all we are women and men . Wife and husband or partners. We bring our children up to be adults then we let them go to make their own lives. Even when we see they are making terrible choices we stay quiet. They have to learn the consequences of their own actions.

We have our own lives to live that doesn't depend on our children. We are adults making our memories and doing the things we want to do that doesn't include our children.
We are entitled to live our own lives the way we want.

On a better note have venue for making our CD on 12th September. No idea where it is but the taxi driver will take me . RSVP as soon as our choir director posted it. Still laugh me being in a choir and making a CD. Looking forward to meeting the other choirs.