Estrangement isn't only non contact. It's lack of empathy and love. It's selfishness.

Oh dear. I really
Hope there’s a more qualified professional you can seek help from because yours is seriously missing the mark. It’s quite clear even hear that yu fvaor your grandson to your grandaughter and no wonder or upset their mother. You are far too involved in thinking your daughter owes you some sort of feelings od behavior and you’re one step from transferring that over involvement and neediness to your grandson. All while dismissing a four year old little girl as “fine”. If my own mum had showed half the preference you display for your grandson here I’d have distanced both my children from her very quickly.l unti she could act accordingly. Your daughter clearly is exhausted and frustrated with you and yet coming around anyway. What a gift you have and yet you do nothing but complain about how abusive it is to you.

A qualified professional counsellor or therapist would never express emotive language such as saying she is “appalled” at how your daughter “berates” you or concur with a sentiment such as “turn my grandson against me.”

Either you are not seeing a qualified professional or you are just hearing what you want to hear.

In either case this will not help you to move forward and resolve your issues. Instead of arguing with replies why not really read and think about what everyone here is saying.

@Eugenia, I understand that things are difficult, but some difficulty seems to be of your own making. Put some distance between yourself and your daughter, let her deal with her problems and concentrate more on your own life. You have become too involved and it isn’t doing anyone any good.
Am concerned that you spend a lot of time talking about your GS, and explain that this is because he misses his daddy and has behavioural problems, and then say your GD is fine, but the thing is if you don’t spend equal time with your GD you really won’t know if she is fine or not. And in my experience little girls tend to sometimes live in the shadow of their brothers who demand more attention. She may not miss a daddy she didn’t live with but that doesn’t mean she won’t miss not having a daddy around as she gets older. If I were you I would try to spend equal time with your GD and you might be surprised at how much she needs your attention as well.

Please do not lean on your grandson the way you have with your daughter, he is just a child, he is not here to help you and provide for your emotional needs. This is rather worrying.

Eugenia, I do think your daughter needs to distance from you. She needs support and understanding, I don't think you provide that, you should want better for your daughter. she is doing her best, been through so much, she needs to heal.

Eugenia

Well my granddaughter didn't get left by her dad because at the time my daughter was pregnant with her! My grandson went through that trauma and it still shows...he has had behavioral problems ever since. My granddaughter is oblivious and I fine. So sure I focus on grandson's emotions a bit more. I watched his reactions calling out for his mama dada while in his mom's arms. It was painful at times. He told me once he wished his mom and dad lived together and it made him dad they don't. I grieved for both my daughter and him for so long and still do but now I have become the scapegoat for what happened...and I tried to understand that for a long time. But when she started to put me down in front of grandson and then the day he told me she said I was a bad grandma.....that tore it. She hates me, ok, her right but she has no right trying to turn my living grandson from me just because she dislikes me. I lost her love but my grandson's love helped and I cherish it. I don't want to lose him too. He and I just clicked since he was born. My granddaughter is 4 and it seems only lately she has gotten closer to me. I am sure soon she will also tell me her mom said I am a bad grandma for whatever reason. That's elder abuse. And I definitely am seeing a pro...who is frankly appalled how my daughter constantly berates me and tries to turn my grandson against me. She is trying to help me emotionally as this has wrecked the good family life I once had only a few years ago.

But you didn't even reference that your DD was pregnant with a second child. Poor little girl never having had that relationship with a resident father being totally dismissed. The trauma she went through in the womb as her mother was obviously distressed. I can understand why your DD isn't happy if you make this obvious.

You need to let your daughter go and her kids and live their life.

What about your husband?

Smileless2012...thank you. You see and understand.

Well my granddaughter didn't get left by her dad because at the time my daughter was pregnant with her! My grandson went through that trauma and it still shows...he has had behavioral problems ever since. My granddaughter is oblivious and I fine. So sure I focus on grandson's emotions a bit more. I watched his reactions calling out for his mama dada while in his mom's arms. It was painful at times. He told me once he wished his mom and dad lived together and it made him dad they don't. I grieved for both my daughter and him for so long and still do but now I have become the scapegoat for what happened...and I tried to understand that for a long time. But when she started to put me down in front of grandson and then the day he told me she said I was a bad grandma.....that tore it. She hates me, ok, her right but she has no right trying to turn my living grandson from me just because she dislikes me. I lost her love but my grandson's love helped and I cherish it. I don't want to lose him too. He and I just clicked since he was born. My granddaughter is 4 and it seems only lately she has gotten closer to me. I am sure soon she will also tell me her mom said I am a bad grandma for whatever reason. That's elder abuse. And I definitely am seeing a pro...who is frankly appalled how my daughter constantly berates me and tries to turn my grandson against me. She is trying to help me emotionally as this has wrecked the good family life I once had only a few years ago.

User138562

Good point about enmeshment Luminance.

One of my biggest issues with my own mother was because she relied on me so much just to be okay. She didn't make friends or have hobbies and would frequently tell me I was her only friend, and the only person who spoke to her. She rejected any of my opinions that didn't line up with hers. I wasn't a whole person to her, but a mini version of her. Her resentment towards me grew as I became my own person. She got more clingy as I started to build my own life. I felt trapped for a long time because her happiness was so tied to me. I think she saw my growing independence as a rejection of her, and it kind of was. I didn't have any sense of my own identity.

If I wasn't in very frequent contact, in a good mood, and compliant to her wishes, we would end up arguing. She got nastier about it when I met my husband.

It was honestly so suffocating, and I feel anxious just recalling it.

I took feel very sad you had to endure that. Terribly sad that anyone but a especially a mother who is a person of such importance to a child, could not see past themselves in such a way.

User138562

Good point about enmeshment Luminance.

One of my biggest issues with my own mother was because she relied on me so much just to be okay. She didn't make friends or have hobbies and would frequently tell me I was her only friend, and the only person who spoke to her. She rejected any of my opinions that didn't line up with hers. I wasn't a whole person to her, but a mini version of her. Her resentment towards me grew as I became my own person. She got more clingy as I started to build my own life. I felt trapped for a long time because her happiness was so tied to me. I think she saw my growing independence as a rejection of her, and it kind of was. I didn't have any sense of my own identity.

If I wasn't in very frequent contact, in a good mood, and compliant to her wishes, we would end up arguing. She got nastier about it when I met my husband.

It was honestly so suffocating, and I feel anxious just recalling it.

I’m so sorry to read this User138562, that must have been really tough for you. She clearly had her own issues going on, and was terrified of you growing away from her, caused by who knows what, but you needed her to mother you, not the other way round. I hope that you have found peace and happiness now.

Well I’ve just read back through all the threads and now have a different perspective on things.

I do think, OP, you have to step back and bear some responsibility for the breakdown of the relationship between you and your DD.

I feel deeply for both of you and your grandchildren.

However, your poor DD has had her entire life ripped apart, is coping being a single mum, in some was it’s worse than a bereavement as there’s so many feelings to cope with, anger, bitterness, jealousy, grief. It sounds like she has simply stopped being able to show love.

She needs support and possibly professional help. She was one half of a couple, he’s now living his best life with a younger model. Be patient.

Good point about enmeshment Luminance.

One of my biggest issues with my own mother was because she relied on me so much just to be okay. She didn't make friends or have hobbies and would frequently tell me I was her only friend, and the only person who spoke to her. She rejected any of my opinions that didn't line up with hers. I wasn't a whole person to her, but a mini version of her. Her resentment towards me grew as I became my own person. She got more clingy as I started to build my own life. I felt trapped for a long time because her happiness was so tied to me. I think she saw my growing independence as a rejection of her, and it kind of was. I didn't have any sense of my own identity.

If I wasn't in very frequent contact, in a good mood, and compliant to her wishes, we would end up arguing. She got nastier about it when I met my husband.

It was honestly so suffocating, and I feel anxious just recalling it.

You have to know someone in person, to have some knowledge of the relationship they have with their AC and how they interact with them, to discern whether or not their pain at being estranged is out of love or enmeshment.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

You are rather enmeshed with your daughter's life. She should not have to shoulder the burden of your feelings about the things she has gone though in life and love. Your daughter is a separate person to you and you must learn to treat her like one. I think I would find you rather exhausting to be around too, terribly sad.

Oh, I didn’t realise this was 5 years ago. I must have read it wrong. I lost my DH 20 months ago, and I was comparing it to how i felt then.

Apologies. 🌺.

JaneJudge

I think you need to thrash this all out with someone neutral, like a counsellor. Crying every day is not healthy, nor is feeling so angry. I wish you well. Family relationships can be complicated

Agreed.

Counselling would perhaps help you be less self centered and angry.

Your daughter lived through a divorce nightmare and allows you access to her children, support her, be kind.

I think you need to thrash this all out with someone neutral, like a counsellor. Crying every day is not healthy, nor is feeling so angry. I wish you well. Family relationships can be complicated

Eugenia, the reason most of us' do not have a clue' is because you were so busy criticising your daughter you failed to provide the relevant information; that this situation started five years ago, she has another relationship, she now has two children and that you have an unhappy marriage.

Wow. Most of you have not one clue

That is because people are responding to what you said in your first post and didnt know all the detail in your second post!

I suggest you get some counselling to help you decide a way forward for yourself.

As upsetting as it is Eugenia you need to accept that the relationship you had with your D has changed. There's little point in agonising over how things were, you must find ways to deal with how things are.

Enjoy the time you get to spend with the GC because despite everything, you're still able to see them. She hasn't stopped this which she could quite easily do which IMO is to her credit.

your daughter sounds like she has re-established her life.. she allows you to see your Grandchildren despite your awful self centredness.. beware this might change if you don't

She wanted to go home after a long day of Christmas activities with her children, she hasn't seen her great uncle since Christmas 2022 so they are hardly close.

Nothing that you've posted sounds remotely healthy.