Help Please! Grandchild being taken to live abroad

My gd came back after 12 years, but her family come first, she was cut off from both sides of family, she was told lies about me, she knows they were lies but loves her mom and dad, so although I will see her now and then, I have lost her. She is a beautiful, clever woman who has led a life I have been no part of. The parents make their choices and we have to live with them and live the best lives we can as we cannot change anything,
I would love to know how Tattie is.
Flowerette, try counselling if you think it will help, it dudn5 me though, I understand completely your distress but all you can do is change your attitude to dealing with a situation you cannot change, I made myself so unwell I considered the unthinkable. It has scarred me and I won’t ever be that person I was, I’m different now and it’s destroyed a lot of my confidence but I have a good life with friends and I know my gd was looked after and was happy.

I am sorry you must go through this trauma but that is what our children do to us with their relationships. The child's mother is choosing not to live with a man who has no job and is being supported by his parents. She has to figure out a way to support her child since he is not.

This thread goes back to October of last year.
I wonder if OP is still around to tell us how things developed?

You have to take a back seat and let your adult son and the mother of his child sort this between them It would be helpful if you tried harder to disguise your clear dislike of B

Firstly check your son’s name is on your GD birth certificate and secondly get your son to see a very good family solicitor, who can give him full legal advice about his parental rights and what kind of court orders to apply for, also family mediation might prove very useful. If he can talk to his partner and just persuade her to wait until at least some formal custody is in place, that would be helpful. There are several websites online giving very basic free legal advice on UK family law.

I can't begin to imagine how distressing it must be Flowerette. If you think counselling may help you then I hope you'll give it a go .

Flowerette

I am so sorry .. I am distressed with a similar situation… I feel sick most of the time .. I’m trying to keep busy .. I have sleepless nights
It’s awful … nobody understands unless they have grandbabies and even then unless it’s happening to them it’s difficult to articulate just how heartbreaking it is .. my world has turned upside down and I’m considering counselling

You might be better starting a new thread, as you’ll probably get more advice.💐

I am so sorry .. I am distressed with a similar situation… I feel sick most of the time .. I’m trying to keep busy .. I have sleepless nights
It’s awful … nobody understands unless they have grandbabies and even then unless it’s happening to them it’s difficult to articulate just how heartbreaking it is .. my world has turned upside down and I’m considering counselling

Your son needs legal advice asap.
Unfortunately GP do not have any legal rights, I would support your son where you can and if he asks for your opinion fare enough otherwise keep out of it.

The couple have to try and work out something which allows both of them to be parents.
Your DIL clearly at this point wants to run away from the issues she has with your son and you.
These are private issues with your son which you know nothing about and it should be left that way.
It's going to be very difficult sharing parenting and living in two countries.
Try and stay positive and do not loose contact with your DIL and your GD that is most important.

Being realistic, though - how many times does a father lose contact when the mother moves away? I'm not saying it's fair or in the child's best interests but just that distance means there's less contact - and with paternal grandparents.

Often, a new relationship or remarriage/s (parents and/or grandparents) further complicates things. A stepchild is involved with half siblings and the new partner's family, especially if they live nearby. Legal proceedings can easily stir up bad feelings so it's easier to just put some things in the past.

We adapt, I lowered my expectations, made great efforts to get along with everybody (and never be demanding) so I still see a grandchild. I'm just one out of five grandmothers now, though, so, being practical, haven't been too involved in their childhood!

Keeping everything crossed that mutual goodwill can be achieved Tatti for all your sake

Thank you all so much there are some really good points here and I will look into all of them. This situation certainly is in the Mother's favour and they never married.

A few days have passed and I have accepted they are going (and fairly soon) and I will miss my GD so much; as I said they live with us so a double whammy. Watching my son keeping a stiff upper lip is just awful too. It all came out of the blue for us but had been planned a while apparently.

We could accept it all so much easier if we knew we'd get decent access this time - that is also enforceable if it breaks down.

We're going to get some more advice now (fast!) and just have to see what we can do in reality, then how it pans out.

We are all smiles around the house and keeping it light for my GD but OMG it's hard! We've had her a year and I know some GPs have had a lot less (and my heart goes out to them) but she is such a part of our daily lives that I can't imagine it.

I'm welling up again so better go! Time to put my Big Girl pants on and do what we can from a practical point of view. In reality I think we are looking a lot of mutual goodwill to get the access working, which I just hope they can achieve.

Thank you all again - I haven't been able to face telling my friends yet so this has been a great outlet for me.

Going to law is costly and will possibly not be helpful, but if father has not got parental responsibility (which I believe is automatic if the parents are married, but these parents are not married) then he should certainly take the advice of Iam64 and apply for it immediately. I think of the parents were living together when baby was born then he should already have parental responsibility, but he is not named on the birth certificate, I don’t think he will have.
It’s all very complicated, but it’s certain that father needs to ensure quickly that he has got parental responsibility, otherwise I think mother can do as she likes.

I think the best interests for a two year old is a happy mother.
Being combative in this situation will not be good for anyone.
The mother and father need to try and come to an agreement between themselves. Going to law will help no one and will cost money that would be better spent on visits between the two parents wherever they are each based.

If your son hasn't already got one, he should apply for a Parental Responsibility Order . It’s very easy and is very rarely refused. That will give him shared PR with his child’s mother.

Look on line for a solicitor who specialises in Family law. They should have Family Law Accreditation. Accreditation is a detailed process so you can be confident your solicitor is properly qualified and experienced.

Parents are encouraged to make arrangements in the best interests of their children. Let’s hope that happens here

Smileless2012

It would appear from your last post paddyann that you still haven't read the OP.

I agree, I find Paddyannes post rude. I don't think Tatty is interfering at all.

nanna8

I think there is something called The Hague convention which prevents a parent leaving a country with a child without permission from the other parent. I know it is invoked here quite frequently in these sort of issues. Are they married ? If they are then that would certainly apply.

There is:

www.alternativefamilylaw.co.uk/international/hague-convention-child-abduction/

Glorianny

Tatti I wonder have you ever though that somewhere in Italy there are GPs hoping their GD will return? I wonder if embracing your GDs heritage might help her mother adjust? If you stepped back acknowledged it might happen, looked at ways of maintaining contact, perhaps learned Italian (just in case and so you can communicate with the other GPs). Perhaps her mum might start to settle more, maybe she's just a bit lost and homesick and looking for support.

I agree. It might be very hard for them too, and if the mother is not allowed to take the child to Italy even for a holiday, they might not get the chance to get to know her or for her to know the other side of her family.

I wondered, too, if the father's name is on the birth certificate, possible Tatti has already said whether or not it is.

I cannot offer any help with the legal side of things...

But I would advise you and your son to accept that she no longer wants this relationship and wants to return home. Then you can work on having a good separated relationship

Whichever route you take, legal or otherwise, the better the relationship the better chances of finding a compromise here

BlueBelle

*She's happy with your son and you clearly dont like her* PaddyAnne I think you ve read it wrongly

The poster actually says
and the relationship has been bad between her and my son for a long time

I agree with Maddy she can’t take the child abroad without the child’s father agreeing if he has equal parental rights but it’s not always cut and dried
I think your son needs to seek some advice in his own right you can support him and give him help if needed but it needs to be insisted by him
Good luck let us know how it goes

I think Paddyanne actually said ‘ she’s NOT happy with your son’.
It is really up to your son to do what he sees fit, but I would be afraid that going in with ‘all guns blazing’ could be both costly and ineffective. Maybe keeping things amicable in the first instance could be a better idea.

I think there is something called The Hague convention which prevents a parent leaving a country with a child without permission from the other parent. I know it is invoked here quite frequently in these sort of issues. Are they married ? If they are then that would certainly apply.

You're absolutely right Glorianny and this would be even more difficult if the mother is able to take the child out of the country.

The welfare of the child should be uppermost in her parents minds, but sadly all too often that isn't the case.

Cold

Your son needs to get specialist advice. He can take steps to prevent his child leaving the country without his permission.

Under the Hague convention - it can be regarded a parental abduction if a child it removed from their habitual country of residence without the other parent's permission. It is one of the risks of having children in a different country, that you may not be able to leave with the kids if the relationship breaks down.

I know several women who have suffered the consequences of this, Some have had to stay put until the kids were older others have managed to negotiate custody arrangements that were legally binding in both countries.

One friend of mine had decided to do what your DIL is considering by returning to the US with the child after her marriage broke down in Sweden to have family support. She took legal advice in both countries and the conclusions were identical - that removing the child from their country of residence (Sweden) and returning to the US would be regarded as parental abduction and could result in her being arrested and losing custody. The lawyers recommended a custody agreement to be registered with the courts in both countries. The child moved to the US but spent 3-4 months a year in Sweden,

That's absolutely true but it is also very difficult if the mother simply refuses to stick to a court order and does as she likes. You are faced with an impossible legal situation, huge amounts of cash swallowed by lawyers and a child who becomes torn between two parents.

It would appear from your last post paddyann that you still haven't read the OP.

You've had some good advice here Tatti and I feel for you in this difficult situation. However I think that I am right in understanding that your son's position, legally, is weaker than you wish because he is not married to the child's mother.