Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Yes I remember that Smiles and I remember the first time I came on and my post began by saying I'm in a dark pit of despair It was like I had been hit by a 2ton truck!

Used to see them at least twice per week and speak on the phone every day, from that to complete silence!

I think being on this support thread is far better than going to counselling, as everyone completely understands as they are in the same boat, whereas councillors are not, so don't and can't fully understand.

Further to my first post today, my estGD had her name taken from her by her stepdad, he then gave his Grandmother's name. So can you imagine when she grows up to learn not only is the folk she's calling nannie etc. not her real family, but also her name isn't what she was born with!

Morning everyone. Back to typical bank holiday weather here, grey skies and drizzle and as it's been so warm, it's also feeling decidedly chilly!!!

Mr. S. used to find pictures of our GC on social media and being unable to resist, would show them to me which I hated so I asked him to stop looking, which he did a few years ago.

So like so many, we have no idea what they look like. I still 'see' our eldest when he was 8 months old because that's the last time we saw him. He'll be 11 at the beginning of next year. I'll probably still see him at 8 months when he'll be turning 21!!!

It's heartbreaking when your AC becomes involved in a coercive and controlling relationship Roobs. As a parent, you often don't understand what's happening until it's too late. That said, even if we had known what was going on, there was nothing we could have done to prevent it.

We don't have any answers do we Whiff but we have one another and being heard, being believed and being supported are so important.

I remember my first post, and the first person to respond. That was you Yogin it's great to see your post this morning. It was such a relief to find other EP's because when it happens you think you are alone, that you're the only one and I've been shocked and saddened to see over the last 9 plus years, just how many of us there are.

I have a magic wand Allsorts, it's the same as Dumbledore's but the blooming thing doesn't work, and believe me I've tried .

You're not being thick, how can you possible know what you've done if they don't tell you? Please don't look back to the time and effort spent trying to resolve this with your D and see it as a waste. You did everything you could and whatever happens in the future, no one can take that from you .

Ooh just noticed there's some blue sky coming through so hopefully the weather's going to improve.

Hello Roobs & Socks.

Alas I have no answers either. Just sending you ❤️?

Sock & Roob sorry you have joined our club of estranged GP.

It's been 9.5yrs for me, same as Whiff & Smiles I didn't see it coming and now it's the norm. I prefer not to see pictures, never look on social media, but my DD does and shows me occasionally, so I know what they look like now.

It's just tragic to cut off half of your family for no good reason other than jealousy. My DGD has been cut off from all her bio. family by her stepdad, her bio. dad & his family have never been in her life. My now estD & GD lived with me before 'he' came along, I was at my GD birth, first one after her mum to hold her, choose her name & thereafter she was named after me [my first name & our surname]. My GD & I had a very special & close bond, had the same with my now estD before all this. So yes we will always ask the question Why?

Oh for a magic wand, there is no easy answer.I feel for you that have never seen your grandchildren./ Socks, that must be so hard your son moving hundreds of miles away without you knowing. That’s the trouble with estrangement, as we have no place in their lives we are of no consideration. I know the first few years of estrangement, I did everything to reunite, I wrote, several letters over the years, apologising (although I didn’t have any specific things to apologise for), for the hurt I must have caused, thought it doesn’t matter how we make up if we do, but to no avail. I’m not sorry I did even though it was rebuffed, I lived in hope. It then became apparent, she had her mind set and nothing would move her, that’s when I stopped trying, not loving, still after all these years I don’t know what I did, but perhaps I’m being thick. I want to tell everyone, don’t waste your life as I did on a lost cause, obviously her love for me had gone, no one cuts of unless they mean it, a lot has gone on before for them before they get that far. They live their lives content or they would accept olive branches or just make up. If you are lucky to have a partner or children concentrate on them.

Weirdly the word gransnet is in estrangement.

Thank you so much!!

Your post has really helped me, as has this whole thread.
My son too has 'lost' contact with the whole family , even my dad who was 96 last week and recently broken his hip did not get a phone call or card.

He is my only child and I often wonder if DIL felt threatened by his side of the family. My darling mum if she were still alive would have something strong and assertive to say to him I am sure.

I often wonder that if I had a daughter and felt she was being coerced into estrangement how it would be classed as abusive but somehow when it is the DIL its not.

Roobs it's so hard wanting to see what our grandchildren look like now. I have never seen or know the name or exact date of birth of my son's youngest. I knew he was due in July 2020 because my son told me in the February of that year and when they had the 20 scan it was a boy. I can't bare the thought of my grandson not having a name so I gave him one and of course have never even seen a photo of him. But think he will look like his brothers .

I am not the only one here who doesn't know the name or seen at least one of their grandchildren.

I do not hate my son and daughter in law. But I will never forgive either of them nor would I ever trust my son again. He killed that.

If he wanted to see me I would agree but he has a lot of questions to answer . I have thought about this a lot over the years and as much as I love him our relationship would never be the same as once trust has been destroyed it can never be repaired.

Like all here we know the pain of not seeing our children and grandchildren. And will never understand why they turned their back on us. My son hasn't just cut me out of his life but all our side of the family. My daughter has washed her hands of him. But my brother is deeply hurt. He was there for us after my husband died. He helped my son the best way he could. And he feels everything he did and all the love has been thrown back in his face.

Our estranged children don't just hurt us but other members of the family . They cut our grandchildren off from knowing where they come from and all family history.

My mom was the holder of of family history and told me. One of my cousin's wife loved talking to me about the family as her own family wanted nothing to do with her and she never knew why. Sadly she died at 53 , 5 years ago now. She had been with my cousin since they where 14. Her father wanted to attend her funeral. He was told if he attended by one of my other cousins if he did he would end up in hospital. Her father hadn't had anything to do with her since she was 18.

My regret is I didn't understand what she was going through know I do. But my large extended family embraced her as they did my husband and she found what a family was.

Having people who understand how it feels has helped me so much I can never thank Smiles and everyone else as I really don't know what I would have done without the support thread. It's been my life line since 2020. You think as you get older you have seen everything and life holds no nasty surprises anymore them wham it hits you with something you never expected. But for all my son has done it's nothing compared to my husband dieing . So I face each day and look forward to my life like I promised him I would. He said live the best life you can and I do . Everyone here you have to do the same . You owe it to yourself and people who love and care for you.

Each day is a new start do something you love to do it doesn't have to be a big thing but something
that will make you smile. And you will feel a bit better and say to yourself I can get through this. Ok it doesn't always work for me but I am only human and a good cry doesn't do you any harm . But it gives you the resolve to face the next thing.

Have a good bank holiday.

Thank you ,

Couldn't resist looking at least I get to see how she is growing up.
The power my son's wife has over the whole situation make me so sad.
It was also a year ago today that it all happened.
Hopefully I will bounce back slightly tomorrow ready to face the world again.

I feel for you Roobs. It's so hard. My lot blocked me. It doesn't stop me looking in the hope grandchildren will unblock me. Who knows how their minds work or how they sleep at night but they do. I too have had a bad day. Its tough at times isn't it.

It's so hard to resist that temptation Roobs and I'm so sorry that you're struggling.

One of the hardest things about estrangement is never being able to understand how our AC can treat us this way.

Struggling today I'm afraid. It's GD 6 th birthday and stupidly looked on Social Media to see photo's of all the fun.

I don't know how my son can do this to us I really and struggling so much to understand.

Everyone here knows how hard it is Socks which is why we're here to support and try to help one another. There's always someone (well more than one actually ) who will see anything you post and will respond.

TBH I'm not sure about that either, if I could accept our ES's apology him having been so heartless and for such a protracted length of time.

But you know what Socks, let's not worry about that; we can cross that bridge if we ever come to it can't we .

Thank you for taking the time to answer. You're quite right Smiless and Whiff. Thank you for your virtual hugs too Diamond Lil. It's natural that we sometimes get overcome by it all. Sometimes I also wonder if I'd accept their apologies after being so heartless. Anyway I need to keep active and independent and upbeat. But sometimes it is hard. Bit I appreciate you all listening x

Receiving hugs, including virtual ones always helps DL .

Just wanted to pop in and send ? to all of you.

I have my family chaos, as you know, but I can't imagine the pain of estrangement from your own children. Some of these ACs are unbelievable with their behaviour.?

One day, perhaps, they will realise, how stupid, immature and selfish they have been.

Estrangement is a blunt and savage instrument, and should only be used as a last resort, not as a mechanism to enable sulking, flouncing and blame shifting.?

Anyway, got things going on here, but just wanted to say that.

{{Hugs]] to all, although I know that doesn't really help.

??

Socksandsocks. You can't make yourself stop thinking about him and your GC, in fact in my experience actively trying to do so just makes it worse.

It takes time and happens 'naturally', if that makes any sense but never completely. 1.5 years although I know will feel like a life time, isn't that long. It's been more that 9.5 years for us and although I do think about our ES and GC occasionally, I can go for long periods of time when I don't think about them at all.

Our lives are different now, our lives and we have changed. Nothing's the same as it was then, we moved and have rebuilt our lives, made a different one which he and our GC are not a part of.

We're all bad mothers on this support thread. Bad mothers, useless GM's and our DH's are bad fathers and useless GF's which is why we are here.

Your questions are the questions we've all asked, are yet to have answered and in all probability never will.

Your son being able to dismiss his father and your grief for the husband and father of your children is incomprehensible DSL.

I've no idea why, but I think as time passes we expect the anniversaries of loss to get easier and if we find one year particularly difficult it throws us off balance.

Last week I dissolved into tears and heart wrenching sobs for no reason. What I mean is nothing triggered it, I was just suddenly and without warning, engulfed with grief for the loss our ES.

Hugs from Mr. S. and the dogs and 5 minutes later I was fine.

You and Allsorts are right. We cannot live our lives if we are tied to the past. Weighed down by emotional baggage especially when that baggage is the person whose estranged us.
What's the point?

Our ES appeared to choose to become immersed in negative victim hood Iam and why, I'll never know.

Me too Whiff, in my worse nightmare, the words cruel and cowardly could never have applied to our ES either, and you're right when you say there's nothing wrong with loving yourself because from there comes our self worth, of knowing what we deserve and more importantly what we don't deserve.

Knowing that we don't deserve our estrangements is such an important driving force when it comes to moving on with and rebuilding our lives; it's empowering.

Socksandsocks it's been over 2 years and I still think about my son and grandson's everyday. I wonder how they are ,did any of them catch Covid or had any accidents. Our children can switch off being our children but I can't switch off being a mom , mother in law and nannie. It's what I am and to be honest I don't ever want to get to the stage of not thinking about them everyday. Their second eldest starts school next week..I remember when their eldest my eldest grandson started nursery as it was attached to the primary school and he had to wear a uniform they sent me a picture of him proudly wearing it.

My daughter's eldest starts school next week as well. But I know I will get a photo of him in his uniform.

Torturing yourself is being a mom and grandmother because we can't stop loving them . I don't know who my son is anymore. As the son I knew would never be this cruel. I have driven myself mad thinking did I do something wrong but I haven't. The worse thing is I didn't see it coming.

Your son has moved 100's miles away I moved over 100 miles to live closer to my children. No one was dependent on me anymore so I was free to live where I wanted . For 7 months I saw him and his 2 eldest every week until Covid but still had photos and videos. So what changed . I know I didn't . Why did he?

How can your son call you a bad mom and useless and selfish granny when you did so much for him.

Do our estranged children think they are the perfect parents? Because if they do they are in for a shock as there is no such thing.

I could have written an email pointing out all the things he let me down over and all the things I saw they did wrong with my grandson's. But I would never do that as it's cruel.

Do our children think we have no feelings or that we not longer exist just because they don't want us anymore?

But all our estranged have taken the easy way out. Don't like someone cut them out of their lives. Be interesting to see what happens when those of us with young grandchildren have grown up. Because if our children think they will never be estranged it could happen to them wonder how they will feel and handle it?

It's a year and a half since my AC cut me out of his life. He isn't the person I knew. But I think of him every day. I wish I didn't. I wonder what I could have done differently. How did I hurt him. How did this all happen. What is he thinking. They have moved hundreds of miles away I found out through family members. I feel deserted. I know I helped him with the children every weekend. With food clothes money babysitting. Yet I was a bad mother. A useless selfish granny. I wish I could cut him and my grandchildren off without ever thinking of them but I haven't managed it yet. I wondered if they were OK during the heat. We're they hydrated. Etc. I just wish I could stop torturing myself. If this is what he wanted to do to me. He has succeeded.

Allsorts , DerbyshireLass and other widows here. In my experience grief never dies it gets worse as the years go by you just cope with it. But even after 18.5 years a wave of grief overwhelms me so I just let the tears flow. I found if I fight it makes it worse. Also it's as if I am punishing myself which is stupid. I have nothing to punish myself about. I still love my husband as much as ever and still consider myself married. I know I am classed as single but hate it. My husband lives on in our children and grandson's they all have part of his DNA. It gives me comfort.

But I know my husband wouldn't stand for what my son and daughter in law have done. But I have accepted it and I will not let them hurt me anymore. Yes I miss my son and grandson's and still love them. I couldn't treat anyone the way I have been treated . It's cruel and cowardly.
Two things I would never thought my son could be.

He's dad could have treated his parents the way I have been treated but he loved them but didn't like them. My son said he loved me but didn't like me. If this is love what's his hate like.

But I love myself and others do to. Their is nothing wrong with loving yourself. Took me the love of my husband to make me realise that. My family loved me but never thought a man would. He was my one and only my rock and still is . ?

The research into attachment is solid and helpful. Resilience in the face of abuse, neglect, chaotic inconsistent parenting is less well researched (so far)

I agree there’s an element of choosing whether to immerse in negative, victim hood or live life as best you can.

Allsorts

Loads of babies are unplanned but loved. You can bring two children up exactly the same and they are chalk and cheese. People bought up in the care system who had dreadful starts in life turn into brilliant parents, give all the live denied them to their own children. Anyone can come up some theory or other and a lot are talking rubbish. It's down to the individual.

I agree Allsorts. It's about choice. We can choose to blame our parents, our families, our education, whatever but ultimately they comes a time when we have to be responsible for the direction our life takes.

We only get the one life so we need to decide exactly what we want that life to look like. Do we want to be held captive by our pasts or do we decide to lay down the emotional burdens and set ourselves free, from all the pain and angst.

We can't move forward to the "sunlight uplands" if we are weighed down by emotional baggage.

Great massage, I feel almost human again. Going to have some lunch and then sit out in the garden and enjoy the fine warm weather. It's very pleasant today. Going to cut some flowers and fill the house with flowers and greenery.

It's the lack of respect from my son for his father's memory and his total disregard for my struggles with grief and loss which I find most difficult.

That he can dismiss my husband and consign him to history so easily and that he can have so little patience with me. Most of the time I'm fine but there are times when the grief does comes back to engulf me again. No doubt he thinks I'm "maudlin" and wallowing in self pity. I'm not. But there are times when the loss becomes more difficult to bear and surely it's not too much to ask for a little support and a few kind words at such times...... but no, there's nothing. Just impatience and cold indifference.

This year the anniversary was particularly bad......no idea why. But I got through it. What choice do I have. We have to go on. I just wish my son would show me a little tenderness and compassion at such times. I know my husband would be horrified and ashamed of his boy if he knew how badly I was being served.

Anyway I'm making a conscious choice. It's been 8 weeks again. From now on I choose me.

Ooh just noticed the time. Must dash. Having a "selfish" massage this morning, ??

Yes that book is brilliant Whiff. I've recommended it a lot over the years since I read it, it was as if she'd been sitting on my shoulder and sharing every moment of pain and anguish from the beginning of our estrangement.

Such wonderful insight based on her own experience, the experience of others and psychological research. 'The Devil's dilemma' being what do you do? How long do you wait before you accept the relationship is over and begin to emotionally detach, 'walk away' for your own mental and physical well being. A dilemma indeed.

I can't begin to imagine Allsorts and Whiff such a devastating loss. Even with the ongoing support of a loving family which of course includes adult children. To have that level of support drastically reduced because of estrangement is beyond comprehension.

Whiff, you fell for a man with your fathers loving heart. I too had such a husband. We were very lucky. The loss is all the more though. How much it would mean to have them here.