Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Afternoon everyone. We had a lovely church service this morning, sang the first two verses of the National Anthem and it felt odd saying King instead of Queen.

That was my interpretation of what Charles said too Whiff. They've made a life for themselves over seas. We have a new Prince and Princess of Wales and along with Camilla, he will have plenty of support to help him in his role without Harry.

I agree Allsorts she bore their lies and victimisation with grace as has Charles, William and Kate. There is no role for them now and IMO, any further trashing will only make them look worse than they already are.

You must have needed that sleep DSL. With so much to think about atm you probably hadn't realised just how tired you actually were.

It's been too long for us now, there's no going back and we don't see a way forward that includes our ES and his children. Our way forward is the life that we've made for ourselves, a life that against all the odds is happy and rewarding.

The death of the Queen has given us pause for thought. What must it have been like for Harry, the last to arrive and his GM already gone; the first to leave the next day?

He cannot be unaware of the distress he and his wife caused the Queen during the last years of her life. Their departure from royal duties, the Oprah interview, the constant barrage of criticism from H & M's friends and allies, not to mention the lies and unsubstantiated accusations.

I think they were invited to visit the Queen at Balmoral while in the UK but declined. What turned out to have been his last opportunity to see her alive. If there are any regrets it's too late now and one day, if any of EAC have any regrets it will be too late for them too.

It's easy to be a 'perfect' parent to very young children that's very true Mandrake and one never imagines, as was our case and for many others too, that one day an outside influence would be so powerful that it would literally tear our family apart.

As hard as it is for you and particularly your DH, there does come a time when you can see that your life is better this way.

Thank you crazy .

Whiff - no such thing as a perfect parent. We're all human and don't read our children's minds.

It's easy to be a 'perfect' parent to very young children. The outside influences are limited at that point and we know exactly what is going on in their world. It gets more complicated as they get older.

I know I'm not a perfect parent but I hope doing my best is good enough, warts and all.

Thanks Whiff. You're very kind.

I think losing the Queen has hit many of us much harder than we anticipated. We knew it was coming of course but it's still a shock. It was the same when I lost my husband and my parents. You know their death is inevitable and you know deep down that it really is the best because they have been set free from their pain but even so it's still hard to bear.

The Queens death has reopened my grief for my lost loved ones. I just need to pause for a while and gather myself again. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I was pleased to see the " Fab Four" doing their walkabout in Windsor, even if they didn't look very comfortable together. At least they made the effort. I doubt very much they will ever be close again, probably too much water under the bridge.

I tend to feel that way about my situation......I live in hope that my relationship ship with my son will get back to some resemblance of what it used to be but I'm doubtful it will come to pass.

Just watching the Queen leave Balmoral. It really is the end of an era.......

Well I slept for almost 8 hrs, so much sleep I actually feel almost "hungover". Still it wont do me any harm, I obviously needed it,

Life feels quite surreal at the moment doesn't it, everything "on hold" as it were. I'm just going to have another quiet day.

DerbyshireLass don't ever think you failed you haven't failed your son he failed you. You have done everything you can and put up with a lot to maintain a relationship with him and your daughter in law.

None of us failed as parents . It's our children that have failed us .

We all brought our children up the best we could . And gave them unconditional love and attention. Many of us brought our children up the same . But then one or more of our children have decided they no longer need their parents. They choose to do that . We didn't choose to no longer be their parents. They think because they don't want us that we no longer exist. But we are still their moms and dads and still grandparents . Nothing they can say or do alters that fact.

They think they are the perfect parents and boy they are in for a shock when our grandchildren get older. I know some have adult grandchildren but others like me have young grandchildren.

My parents did things wrong bringing my brother and me up but neither of us ever criticised how we where brought up. Our parents always did the best they could. Like all parents.

Babies do not come with manuals . I had a loving and caring son who turned out to be cruel and cowardly by the way he ended his relationship. You don't end relationships via email and letter. You do it to their face. He was brought up like his sister to face any problems life threw at him.

Everyone has to over come problems in their lives and usually it is family that helps you face them. I am lucky I have my daughter and family. But have to face things on my own. Life was so much easier when my husband was alive. As making all the decisions is hard. But I do it anyway.

Love isn't a tap you can turn off. Love isn't simple or easy. But it what makes my world go round. My love for my husband hasn't died and never will. Neither will the love I feel for my children and grandchildren, family and friends who I also love. I would hate to live in a world where love wasn't important.

Estrangement is hard but it hasn't killed the love I feel for my son and grandson's. But I suppose it's the son I knew I love not the son of the last 2 years. I don't know him. I grieve for the son I knew but I hope he is still there under the son I no longer know.

Mandrake.....You have done your best, ❤️

DSL - I can guarantee it will not improve at this stage.

Even if my MIL feels that way, it's because she wants it all her way or no way. If it is too much for her to bear that she doesn't get to dictate how my household will run to suit her preferences, so be it. It's then better for us too.

Hello Mandrake. I am very sorry to hear you say this. It must be very painful for you.

In all honesty it gives me no pleasure to have to love from afar. I find it very painful. I feel that I've failed. But I've now accepted that, at least for now, it's probably for the best.

I live in hope........

Meanwhile I'm just doing the best I can.

I hope your situation will one day improve. ?

Quote: "This is now my approach with my son and DIL. I love them but I think it's best if I maintain a little bit of distance, both physical and emotional."

I think this is how my MIL feels.

Congratulations Mr&Mrs Smiles here’s to the next 42 ?

I got very upset at the Queen dying. She bore her estrangement with grace. As someone estranged I know the pain of that . Now those two are back, mainly I think because they have lost popularity in the States, want to be back in the fold. They can’t go on selling books.

Jandixie - what you describe is an all too common trajectory for estrangement. In the early days we hope and hope this isn’t happening - so we carry on. We send cards, texts, letters, presents, and like you, we sent money. All unacknowledged. Then there comes a time when it is too painful to continue. You struggle with the guilt - surely loving parents don’t give up. But eventually for your own sanity you have to accept what is….and let go. Realise the estrangement is most likely permanent. Then the building of a different future begins. I know I carry a deep deep sadness within. But there is nothing I can do to change things. So I live and try to embrace the moments of joy I can, knowing full well I can be triggered at any moment in time and a wave of sadness/despair flood over me. I am so so sorry you are having to join us here. You have been given good advice, especially re the college fund. Mine is to give it your best shot to try to repair the relationship, but if your son and his wife refuse to engage, then I hope you can reach acceptance of what is and move on.

Whiff......spoke to EA re house. But if a hiccup at bottom of chain, delays with solicitor. FTB so always an issue because they don't know the ropes and don't now that you have to more or less "progress the sale" yourself. The usual story, lenders are overwhelmed and taking a long time to issue mortgage offers, local searches are taking unprecedented amounts of time....blah, blah, blah. It's all a load of waffle. Still no point in getting in a tiz. Que sera and all that. Hopefully I will be moved by Christmas......?

In the meantime I've got a skip coming on Monday so I will just crack on with the decluttering in readiness.

I think my pep talk to my son might have worked. I had occasion to text him with a question yesterday. I actually received a nice friendly answer and not the terse monosyllabic type of reply I have received of late. We shall see ......

Yes I thought Charles's message to Harry and Meghan was very diplomatic. "We love you but we will love you from afar". A classic example of what I call my Red Rope Policy, leaving the door open but setting out boundaries.

This is now my approach with my son and DIL. I love them but I think it's best if I maintain a little bit of distance, both physical and emotional. I will always be happy to see them but I will not push for more contact. I will not put my life on hold and sit around waiting for them. I will build myself a rich and rewarding life on my terms.

Life's too short to waste time on wishing and hoping.

Thought King Charles speech was very good . But he made it clear Harry and Meghan's life was in America . Glad William and Kate are Prince and Princess of Wales. Loved his referee to Camilla. Lovely tribute to his mom .

Taking it easy today as did 2.5 hours in the garden yesterday. Once out there I lose track of time but I pay for it afterwards . But feel happy what I achieved.

DerbyshireLass and Hugs how are your moves progressing ? Hope you are both moved before Christmas.

Yogin bet you have been getting your garden ready winter . Hope you have had no more problems with your neighbour.

It's my brother and sister in law's 6th wedding anniversary today. His eldest daughter and future son in law are visiting this weekend. So they will have a fun time.

Been a trying week for them. My sister in law had to go back too the Midlands for a hospital appointment she had been waiting a year for on the 6th. Then back again with her dad as it was her mom's funeral on 8th. Her dad had written a piece about her mom and my brother read it out. I offered to attend but they said no as they would go straight back home after the funeral .

Got my daughter's eldest Tuesday morning for a few hours . As he is only at school alternate days again then starts full time the week after. But he was full of it when I was at theirs Wednesday afternoon.

Noticed a lot of the schools up here all school children wear proper shirts not polo shirts . The little ones look so sweet in their they will grow into it clothes.

Well better get on. Have a good day everyone.

So sad our Queen has passed away, never known a day without her in it, she reminds me of my mum. I was watching the TV and had just 15mins before getting ready for my work when the news broke. Didn't feel like going but of course had to. Only half the class turned up. RIP dear Queen of England.

Will read posts later on.

Jandixie sorry they have never acknowledged your cards and college money. But unfortunately that's part of the course for estrangement. And as usual grandchildren are used as pawns and weapons against us.

Smiles have given sage advice concerning the college money. My parents put some money into a post office account every birthday for each of their grandchildren for them once they where 18. When my brother and his second wife spilt permanently I asked if they held the book for their youngest granddaughter and put the money in themselves which they did. But after my dad died mom gave my brother the book and gave him the money to put in. She had the money on her 18th birthday as had my children and nephew and other niece did.

I haven't sent cards,presents or money to my son and grandson's since everything was returned unopened on 14th August 2020 with a vile letter from my son . It hurt me so much to think my son and daughter in law could be so spiteful to not let my grandson have his birthday card and money,birth presents and card for his baby brother and money for his older brother. Plus my son didn't open his own birthday card with money and a letter from me.

As I have never sent them any cards I have not received anything from them. He choose to cut me out of his and families life but also all our side of the family. I decided not to send cards and money for any occasion as I will not let them hurt me again by sending them back unopened.

But you must do what feels right to you. Lot of what we feel when estranged is the same but we are all individuals and feel able to cope with some things better than others. I couldn't cope with things being sent back but that's me.

Sorry you are part of the growing estrangement group but glad you are here. You are amongst people who know how you feel. And it's a safe place where you can write how you feel and not be judged or found wanting as a parent. Here there is round about a decade of support,advice, understanding and friendship. When we have our children we never dream one day they will turn their backs on us as if we never existed . But we do and will forever be their parents whether they like it or not. ?

It feels strange to feel so sad about the Queen dieing. But I suppose because of all the people who are no longer in my life the Queen has still been there. Glad to see it will be King Charles 3rd. Glad he is using the name his parents gave him. He has other names but it would felt odd if he had chosen one of them. Especially as he has been called Charles for over 70 years by the nation and world.

Jandixie. Welcome to the thread. It's quiet on here today....I think .we are all a bit pre-occupied today but I'm sure you will find support here.

Should you continue to send cards.....why not if it makes you feel better to do so. If you are feeling it's too much, then maybe just cut back a bit.

With regard to the college fund. I think to not get any kind of response is outrageous,

Perhaps you could set up a separate account in your own name. You are still setting money aside for your grandchild and you can monitor the fund and ensure it is kept safe for him. At the moment you don't even know what is happening to the money. As Smiles says £3k a year is a generous sum.

My mum and the queen were of an age, mum even looked a bit like her. My mum died in 2015. Today has brought it all back. I've shed quite a few tears.

Today is definitely the end of an era, we will never see her like again. A sad day.

It's terribly sad isn't it Whiff. Our country will never be the same again .

Welcome to our support thread Jandixie.

The $250 you are contributing to this college fund, is it in the name of your grandson and set up in such a way that only he can access the fund when age appropriate? If you don't know please try to find out as this a lot of money, $3000 a year and as it hasn't been acknowledged since your estrangement you need to know that it's going where you intend it to go.

Perhaps you could limit the cards to his birthday and at Christmas. It's very hard when there's no acknowledgement and so limiting this to twice a year may be easier for you.

We've been estranged from our son and only GC for more than 9.5 years. The eldest not quite a year old at the time of our estrangement, although we hadn't seen him since he was 8 months old and never met his younger brother.

I think it was 2.5 years ago that we stopped sending cards at Christmas and for their birthdays, just cards nothing else. We bought 2 so one was posted and the other for the 'memory' box that is left to them in my will.

Now we just buy one for the memory box. When we decided to stop sending them it was because we no longer felt it was something we needed to do for ourselves.

My advice is to continue sending cards but just for birthdays and Christmas until you no longer feel you need to do so for yourself. If you are happy that the college fund money is only for your grandson and are happy to continue to contribute then do so.

If it is a fund that others also contribute too, I'd be inclined to keep a record so that when the time comes, your grandson will know that as his grand mother, you had helped to provide money for his future education.

Jandixie sorry can't give you a proper reply at the moment . Just heard our Queen has died. I feel sad.

I not quite sure what to do. I am estranged from my son and his family for 1 1/2 years. My grandson will be 4 soon. I send a card every week to him with a joke and three dollars. One to save, one to spend and one to give away. No response. I also from the day he was born contributed $250.00 per month for college. No response. Should I continue just knowing I am trying to be kind? Or maybe I think it would help to reconnect. I am angry and think I should just stop trying. My heart is breaking

There's no more you can do Mandrake apart from support your H through this .

Good grief Whiff that catalogue of problems on your wedding day would have made an interesting episode in a soap opera. Unlike I you, I had no idea what was going on thank goodness.

Mandrake You tried. It's up to her. It is good that your husband has your support