Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Smiles Yes, maybe there does come a time when that door is closed. Still, if MIL got in touch tomorrow, I'd hear her out in case there's been a big shift. Only after making sure my DH was good with that though. If he needs that door to be closed to protect himself, that is the lead I will follow.

Smiles hope your new pet pigeon is ok this morning and that you gave him/her a good breakfast

Your D followed her H and our son followed his wife Yogin. Totally incomprehensible isn't it.

I think for me it is unbridgeable Mandrake "my head would have to stop me from being drawn in" that's how I feel .

It almost broke us and we couldn't go through that again so it's not a lack of love, it's fear.

Yes I think she did Allsorts. It's rare TBH that I interact with babies and toddlers so maybe being able to do so on Sunday is another milestone I've reached on this long road.

You must be relieved that they've moved Yogin but how strange to be so awkward with a new neighbour. Hopefully your new neighbours will be better behaved.

Well the pigeon has gone. Mr. S. managed to get it to fly off and it hasn't come back. I think it was ready to leave but as I suspected was unable to negotiate a way out. It flew into our patio doors poor thing, and the sound of it hitting the glass was very upsetting but thankfully it was unharmed.

I loved my estD with all of my heart and soul and then when my GD came along loved her the same and my GS too when he arrived, so to be treated in such a cruel and heartless way, the only way I could survive was to build a big thick wall around my heart, that wall is, after nearly 10yrs, is solid, no way in now.

Me too Whiff & Smiles I can never forgive what my estD has done, for no reason other than following her despicable H.
She didn't just crucify her mum & sister, she destroyed her little girl's world too.

QuoteDerbyshireLass Sun 11-Sep-22 13:57:50
If Harry has anything about him at all he must be feeling terrible guilt and remorse at the way he hurt his grandparents, for the treatment he and Megan dished out, especially with regards to their cruel and callous indifference when the Duke of Edinburgh was so ill.
If not Megan, then surely Harry, must feel something.......

Very good post DSL and I agree.

Went up to London on Sunday, took us 4hrs!, normally about 1.5hrs. Too crowded towards the Palace. We had already booked a restaurant on the Thames, had a lovely meal and then a walk along the riverside, Big Ben and houses of parliament in full view, we had a lovely day.

Thanks for sharing the Kings speech where he said he would love from afar, didn't hear that even though I've been glued to the screen watching it all.

Fine with my neighbour now, thank you Whiff. The one over the road who would park on my bonnet has moved out, not even a removal van, stuffing everything into their estate cars even a double mattress! it was like a slapstick comedy clip. They left all their kitchen white goods [they were actually all black] on their driveway and went I got back at about 9.30pm a family were loading them into their van, couldn't fit them all in, rearranged and ended up leaving an oven [I think] behind. So, all that aggravation from them and they must have known they were about to move!

Now to read last page...

Smileless, It made me cry, the exchange with the lady next to you in church. I've had similar experiences. No one really knows the agony of it unless it's happened to them, but that lady understood your pain.?

Ten years is a long time, Smiles.

If the basis of relationship is shared experiences and memories, the longer it goes on, the harder it is to bridge that gap. I do wonder if it can become unbridgeable? I know there is too much that has happened in my family that some people have not been there for.

I tend to think with my heart a bit, so am making a point to think only with my head when it comes to some people. It doesn't mean I don't care, because I do. If MIL lived nearby and I got a call saying she needed help with something I know my reaction would be to go help, but my head would have to stop me being drawn in. Never going to happen though.

Well it can only happen to us.

Mr. S. has been out all afternoon and I noticed we had a pigeon on our roof terrace. Because I had a house cat we erected glass on the front low wall so my cat wouldn't jump on to the wall and go off the other side.

The unexpected drawback being that on about 3 occasions we've had a seagull come onto the terrace and be unable to get out again, which Mr. S. has had to catch by throwing a blanket over them and take them down stairs and outside the front to let them go.

So when he came in, he picked up the pigeon which is a a ringed racing pigeon and dutifully took it down stairs to release it. It didn't fly away but began walking away from the house on the footpath.

Less than 5 minutes later it flew back onto our roof terrace!!!

He assures me that it will be able to fly out when it wants too, but what if it doesn't want too? We're leaving it for a while so not to cause too much stress then he'll get hold of it again so I can take down the number and we'll have to contact the relevant organisation to find out the name and number of the owner.

Like I said, it can only happen to us.

Oh I'm glad you understandDSL . Our emotions are so difficult to understand ourselves aren't they, never mind trying to explain to others.

I'm so thankful for this thread, that we find true understanding here even when we struggle to find the words to express how we feel.

"I love him but I'm not in love with him".

I get that Smiles, it's a perfect summing up really. It's exactly how I feel. ?

Oh yes, sorry DSL I was responding to DL.

Well done on losing 6 lbs. It's generally recommended to lose between 1 and 2 a week so looks as if you're on target.

I can't say I would drop everything and rush to our ES's side if he needed our support. It would I think very much depend on the situation and TBH even then, I don't know what I would do.

10 years at the end of this year. It's such a long time and yes I love him, I'm his mother and will always love him but that's not the same either. I've said this before on our support thread, and I'm not sure if it makes sense but it's the only way I can describe it. I love him but I'm not in love with him anymore.

Smiles. I think you meant DL rather than me but I do agree with the sentiments. Just because they were indifferent parents it doesn't necessarily follow they will be poor grandparents.

My father was a very difficult man (understatement of the year, lol) but I somehow managed to maintain a relationship with him, although at times it was a struggle.I wouldn't have dreamt of not allowing my parents access to their grandchildren.

My boys adored my mother and still often fondly remark that she made "the best chips in all the world". (Triple cooked long before they became a thing.....lol). However, they were wary around my father because of his unpredictable temper. They learned to give him a wide birth when necessary and but they were very fond of him.

"Blood is thicker than water". It's a funny saying isn't it but I do think there is a grain of truth in there somewhere.

You often hear people, especially youngsters, saying they are looking for "their tribe". I suppose meaning they are looking for like minded people who they can trust and rely on.

Well, I think, for the most part, family really are your tribe. In even the most strained parent/child relationship the parent would always have their childs best interests and well being at heart. They would always "have your back". I think there are few parents who wouldn't drop everything and come running to help or support their child, even if they were estranged.

My dad was "flakey" at best but I always knew he would be there for me. I knew I could trust him to come up trumps. And whilst my mum could be somewhat ineffectual I know she loved me to bits and was inordinately (often embarrassingly) proud of me.

Towards the end of their lives our roles became reversed. Despite our difficulties I still looked out for my dad as best I could and dud everything I could to keep them safe and comfortable in their declining years. My sister ended up attending doctors and hospitals with them, shopping for them etc because by that time I was pretty much taken up with caring for my husband. However, I did all the social services stuff, helped dad manage their finances, made sure they got all their benefits etc, sorted out mums nursing home and dads sheltered accommodation.

Ok they weren't ideal parents but I wouldn't have dreamed of estranging them and abandoning them. Just as I wont abandon my son, dil and grandchildren.

My life would be so much easier if I were to walk away and leave them to it, concede defeat and let DIL have it all her way. I know it's what she wants but now that I have had chance to talk to my son I am now pretty certain it's not what he wants. Now I know that for sure I will continue to try and keep things on an even keel, keeping the red velvet rope in place and hope in my heart.

WW weigh in today. Have now lost 6.1lbs. Slow but sure, the tortoise and the hare.

Skip has arrived, odd job man coming tomorrow to load the heavy items so seeing as it's raining now I'm going to crack on with some decluttering.

Spring .

We have and will continue to miss so much Allsorts. It's as if our lives are a book but one of the chapters is empty, the pages unwritten because there is nothing to write.

No memories of times spent with our AC and GC. Watching our GC grow and being just a tiny part of the milestones they've already reached. Learning to walk, to talk and their first day at school. So much has been missed, and so much will be.

Yesterday in church I and the lady sat next to me were 'entertaining' a baby during the service to give her mum a break. As we were making her laugh, she asked me if we had GC so I said not really. Our youngest son estranged us nearly 10 years ago so we haven't seen our eldest since he was 8 months old, and never seen his younger brother. I told her it was the reason we moved here.

We've been sitting and singing together for 2.5 years and of course she had no idea, why would she. The look of shock on her face was profound and she was visibly upset when she said "That's horrible; I'm so sorry". I smiled and said 'it is what it is' and then for her sake more than mine, changed the subject.

I'm sure there are some who do struggle when the person/people they've estranged pass away and there was no attempt to reconcile Mandrake. As you say for those left behind they will know that they tried even if they don't succeed.

I always find it incredibly moving DSL when I read how someone had an "extremely difficult relationship" with their parent or parent in law and also read that they were "such a lovely Gran and Great Gran to my children and grandchildren".

Being able to rise above one's own difficulties and issues so that others do not have to 'pay the price' of having no contact, and missing out on a potentially meaningful and important relationship, takes a loving and gracious heart.

'Blood is thicker than water' not for our ES in fact I think he must have ice rather than blood running through his veins .

I had an extremely difficult relationship, at times, with my mother.

I didn't estrange her, I just bit my tongue for years, and refused to get baited by her, if she started.

I did my "duty" when she contracted Alzheimer's, and arranged the best care I could for her.

I didn't feel grief when she died, it was way past that. But, I did feel a curious sense of regret for what might have been, and a bit of sorrow that we never managed to sort things out properly, even though, realistically, she wouldn't have admitted her faults.

But, I was incredibly grateful to her for being such a lovely Gran and Great Gran to my children and grandchildren.

Blood is thicker than water, in my view, but sometimes you just have to do the best you can, with how it is. ?

My experience is that it's easy for an estranged person to say, "Don't care," but they do when the end finally comes. Maybe there is always a subconscious hope that things can be different? Maybe it's grief for what should have been? In any case, it is vital to make sure that we are okay with how things stand should death come suddenly, at any age.

Reaching out, even if rejected, can be a good thing. It at least leaves the person who has to go on with the knowledge they tried.

I'm giving up, everything I write gets changed when I press send. I think it's a bit like how I feel. Good night all.

You can forgive but not forget, what was said, how it made you feel. If a person is truly sorry and actively truest to out things right its completely difference to sweeping it under the mat because it suits them better. Me, I've missed so much, I don't know her.

Thanks from me too for the brilliant posts. Had been feeling down, but getting some perspective helps. I’m not sure our EAC will be affected by what has happened re making an attempt to reconnect. They are so convinced they are right to have estranged. But one can always hope……and I think the ability to forgive where there is love is always possible.

For us too Whiff. By moving we found ourselves again and our ES is not the son we knew, not are we the parents he knew.

TBH for me, I don't know if there could be forgiveness. I suppose I'll never know until he asks me for it, but if there were like you, it would a relationship at arms length and knowing how we once were, I'm not sure I could have a watered down version of what we once had.

DerbyshireLass and Smiles brilliant posts as usual and a lot to think about.

But there are some things than can never be forgiven . What my son and daughter in law have done I can never forgive or forget. But if they want a relationship we can have that but it will be at arms length. And I am done putting up with lies and half truths .

Moving I found myself again . My son is not the man I knew I am not the mom he knew. And to be honest I like this new improved me. The last 3 years have been hard since I moved not just because of them but health problems. I have come to terms with the estrangement had to for my own peace of mind. And anyway the worse thing to happen to me happened a long time ago when my husband died . Nothing has hurt me as much as losing him.

But I do look to the future and look forward to having many more years hopefully ?

You would think so DSL, how could he not? If he is this will be a terrible burden for him to carry.

During our service this morning, we had a period of quiet reflection. Our vicar asked us to think quietly about two things that stood out to us the most about the Queen. For me it was her smile and her ability to forgive.

Forgiveness is spoken of so much, but often with little thought about the magnitude of its meaning which was so evident as you say when she shook the hand of Martin McGuinness.

The greater the pain caused, the greater the act of forgiveness must be and often, the hardest person to forgive is ourselves.

If Harry has anything about him at all he must be feeling terrible guilt and remorse at the way he hurt his grandparents, for the treatment he and Megan dished out, especially with regards to their cruel and callous indifference when the Duke of Edinburgh was so ill.

If not Megan, then surely Harry, must feel something.......

If one good thing could come out of the Queens death it might be that it helps some estranged families to think again, to forgive and to reconnect.

We have all seen how Harry got it so wrong, even declining to visit the Queen earlier this week whilst she was still alive and then to make matters worse for him, arriving so late on Thursday afternoon. Now his conscience must surely be paying the price for his arrogance and stupid pride.

Perhaps some EAC's will see what has happened and maybe it will help them re-evaluate their own lives. They might realise that they aren't as smart as they think they are, that they are shooting themselves in the foot by estranging their families who love them and who only want the best for them.

As you say Smiles now it's a time for pause and reflection, and hopefully for some families to watch and learn from all this so they can both proffer and accept olive branches.

Just maybe some might realise it's time for forgiveness and reconciliation.....

I've just been listening to one of my favourite songs "Turn, Turn, Turn" by the Bryds. A nice soft rock folk song based on the teachings of Ecclesiastes 3

To everything there is a time and a season...........

If I understand it correctly I think it's all about acceptance, learning how to live with grace and how to forgive.

This is something the Queen did over and over again.....When Lord Mountbatten was murdered by the IRA she still managed to meet with them in order to try and forge a peace, when she met with world leaders who had been our nations enemies and offered them the hand of friendship, visiting countries that were hostile and winning them over, right to the end she continued to offer an olive branch to Harry and Megan.

She really was an exemplar of the power of love and compassion.

Smiles. You are right. Acceptance is key, accepting what we cannot change with grace. Only then can we let go of all the pain and hurt and live our lives in peace and joy.