Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Glad you were OK Whiff ..and really good you are getting stronger.

I haven't heard of Mrs Caldicotrs Cabbage Wars ...going to look it up and make a note to watch it when it is on again.

Just watching Mrs Caldicot's cabbage wars it's a very good film watch it everytime it's on. Love how the mom turns the tables on her son and daughter in law .

Was doing my exercises and got on my right knee but instead of getting back up ended up on my bum. Normally I would call my daughter to get me up. But thought I can do it. So shuffled over to the armchair as needed something heavier than the dining chair I use. Put 2 cushions under my right knee and pulled myself up. Won't be doing that exercise again until Wednesday at class. But it shows the exercises are making me stronger ?. Text my daughter to tell her. Pleased I got up but said don't be silly and do it by yourself again. ?.

My3sons Sadly there are many who find themselves in this situation, I am so sorry and can only say that I understand and empathise with your hurt!
Admitting that you have made mistakes and apologising is hard but very creditable, and hurts more when others seem unable to do the same and when nothing changes in the problems despite you doing that. I wonder if you have also experienced a complete misreading of something said or done or assumptions made about how you will behave or respond, another common scenario in this situation? Sometimes this might be nothing to do with anything that you have done or said but
are about assumptions made based on another's persons experiences, perhaps from their own mother, in the past or even in the present! Such assumptions seem easily to become fact in someone's mind and there seems little to be done about those "facts"!

You will find understanding and support here as well as kindly critical friendship as you try to work out the best way forward for yourself

My3sons Smiles has said it all. But I know how it feels not to have the support of a loving husband . Losing both parents and brother as well is a lot to cope with on your own.

Like Smiles says on of our regular posters is in your position and she can give you the benefit of her experience and how is she is coping and decisions she has made.

My son made it easier for me by saying zero contact. Which he has got. It's not easy but I won't let my son and daughter in law hurt me anymore. I turned a blind eye to a lot of things but until 2.5 years ago lived over 100 mile's away and was just happy to be with them as months went by between visits them to me or me coming here. My son never let me down of the important things but would be late coming to pick me up from my daughter's when I was visiting here or cancel visits at the last minute. Put up with my daughter in law's rudeness and snide comments about my daughter . All because I was just happy to be with them. I realise now they must have laughed themselves silly thinking I didn't notice or care what they where doing.

I miss my son and 3 grandson's very much. And never saw the estrangement coming. I don't even know why. I know what he put in his email and letter. But he rewrote history and lied. He accused me of things but he doesn't know how I reacted to things or what I did to try and help because he never asked just accused . So I have nothing to apologise for nor will I if he ever contacts me again . He has destroyed any trust I had in him and will never forgive either of them.

What do your other children think of the situation you are in? Do you have regular contact with them?

As you can see I ramble on. So never worry about how long your posts are. Just hope we can help you find peace with your situation. All here are just a click away. We have all found what we needed by talking to eachother. ?

He was larger than life wasn't he My3sons and despite how long it's been, it's still hard to believe he's no longer here.

Feeling side lined and out in the cold is so hard. We have a lovely poster here whose position is very similar and I'm sure she'll come and share with you.

Only you know for how long and how much you can take. Of course it is always worth fighting to maintain a relationship but you also need to look after your own well being.

I am sorry that you have lost your spouse, brother and parents. Why is it that when you need love and support, those that you always think will be there for you are no where to be seen, or are playing mind games?

You shouldn't have too and it isn't easy, but it may help you to lower your expectations or even have none at all. Any contact you have will then be a bonus.

None of us are perfect, none of our AC are either. All you can do when mistakes have been made is to apologise which is what you have done; you can do more.

It might be worth stepping back a bit. Maybe not always being available when they do want to see you. I realise that in doing so this will impact on how often you see your GC, but them knowing you wont be at their beck and call whenever it suits them, could make them more appreciative and think about the damage they're doing to the relationship.

I'm sure to anyone who has never experienced estrangement and/or been subjected to the treatment many of us have experienced, it must sound really odd to see a parent say that no contact can be easier than the anger, ultimatums and emotional blackmail hugshelp.

Focusing on other things, keeping our body and minds busy really does help. That said, at least when you are estranged you know where you stand. Not where any parent would want to be but easier than being in 'no man's land'.

As you say Whiff it does take courage to post especially for the first time, but that relief when someone comes along and understands, really understands is priceless.

Knowing that you're not alone, that it isn't just you and yours is not a voice in the wilderness is surprisingly comforting.

We had a lovely evening yesterday, meal out, watched Bohemian Rhapsody and spent some time counting our blessings. We haven't done that for a while and I think that's why I was feeling emotional but in a good way.

Despite having lost so much there's still so much to be thankful for and on those difficult days, it's easy to forget.

Thrilled Blogsy and My3sons123 found us. But sad for your situations. Hopefully you will stick with us and find the support and friendship you badly need.

You have both found courage to post. Took me long time of PMs to Smiles before I found the courage to post openly. Admitting your children could hurt you so much is very hard. You give your children unconditional love and they become your whole world. Everything parents do from the moment you bring your baby home is for them. They come first and you spend the rest of your life giving them love , attention and protect them with every fibre in your body.

You see them grow and instill into them good values and are always there for them. They become adults and you have to let them fly. Knowing that you have done the very best you can and they know that you are still for them whenever they need you.

Blogsy and My3 I don't know if you have have husband's or partners. But it's just as hard to bare that your child or children can turn against you if you are a couple or on your own.

Blogsy it must hurt so much to see your son hurting and there is nothing you can do to make it better. You are living with a double edged sword. I am glad you daughter in law still lets you see your grandchildren and look after them. Have you talked to your son about how you feel? You are in a very difficult situation and must feel torn in 2. Does your son see his children on a regular basis?

When my brother's 2nd wife finally decided it was the end of their marriage of 22 years after twice before deciding it was over and my brother moved out and went back. He felt a failure . But his 2 eldest children where adults and went with him. His youngest was 8 and stayed with her mom and is still living with her . She is 19 now. But he had her to stay with him every 2 weeks . But woe betide if he was a minute late taking her back. He had to pay his ex wife nearly £300 a month from when the separation was official . And paid until her 19 th birthday. Within weeks of my brother and his children leaving his ex wife had a boyfriend.

My poor parents I never realised how hard it was for them seeing my brother hurting so much and they could do nothing to make it better. I never liked my ex sister in law and my late husband hated the sight of her. But we never treated her badly she was family and as such was treated as other family members. If you have been reading the previous support thread and this one I was brought up to believe family was everything.

But she never stopped my parents seeing and spending alone time with the children through the separations and then the final end of the marriage. She still kept in close contact with my mom after dad died right up until mom died. She came to both funerals. I don't like wakes and only attended ones I couldn't get out of. We didn't have one for my husband. Dad's was just my family and my brother's having lunch at mom's . Mom lived with me so just had lunch at mine for my family and brothers . My ex sister in law had the gaul to follow my nephew and nieces into my home. My son took one look of my face and asked if I wanted him to throw her out. But as I didn't want to upset my youngest niece I let her stay . Should say she remarried within a short time after the divorce and my mom went to her wedding. My ex sister in law wore a black dress. Luckily her husband was at work as I wouldn't have let them both stay.

I hated being nice to her and she sat by my sister in law and who I love very much. Mom was at there wedding in 2016 and said to me finally he's found someone who deserves him. My sister in law it's her second marriage and my brother's 3rd. They finally found the other halves of themselves. I have never known my brother so happy. At least my sister in law's mom got to know my brother and see them marry before dementia took her. Mom's dementia took her within months of their marriage. But both mom's got to see them happy.

As usual I ramble on. Blogsy I don't know if your son has found anyone else but it took my brother years before he started to date again. He just concentrated on his family. He maintains a civil relationship with his ex wife and her husband for the sake of his children. But my ex sister in law hates my brother being happy and never speaks to my sister in law when they met at the children's birthdays etc. If her husband goes to talk to her she gives him daggers. My sister in law thinks it's hysterical.

My ex sister in law threw my brother away but hates the fact he is in love and very happy.

What I think I am trying to say that one day your son will be happy again but the fact you see your grandchildren means your daughter in law trusts you and knows the children are safe with you and she must have feelings for you . So as hard as it is for your son to see that hold on to it. As it's awful not seeing your grandchildren . I have 3 grandson's I don't see and don't even know the name of the youngest or his exact date of birth. They are 5,3 and 1.

I will post this as don't want to lose it . But will be back My3sons123.

Oh dear mysons123. Yours is such a familiar story. I'm not in quite the same position as you but have read many similar ones. I'm sure there will be people along who have or are walking a very similar path to your own.

Having said that I've gone in the opposite direction, from being totally estranged - with no reason given - to have recently had a first contact which was very angry and full of ultimatums. I'd just got myself to a point of acceptance about the estrangement and I have to admit in some ways this now feels worse. I will have to see what happens.

The only thing I can suggest is that you focus on the things in your life that are positive and put energy into taking care of yourself. I'm done with trying to fix things unilaterally. If my ES wants me he knows where I am and I'll be there for him if I can. Otherwise, I have other things to think about.

Love Bohemian Rhapsody smiles - both the song and the film.

I love your use of FM and Queen as an example of how real families should be. I totally agree! And also adored that film myself. Have been a Queen fan since junior high school. Was just pondering recently the relationship between Freddie and Mary...I thought at this point in my life that would be the perfect arrangement. Undying love, devotion, and support without all the romantic complications!

It's late so I'll keep this short.

A very warm welcomeMy3sons I'm so pleased that you found us, but sorry that you needed too. I'll respond tomorrow when there's more time but just wanted to welcome you and say, you probably wont get over the hurt, but you will learn to live with it, as we all do with varying degrees of success.

Your post wasn't long; you should see then length of some of ours. You're among friends here so how ever long a post is, it will never be too long.

We've just watched Bohemian Rhapsody, not for the first time and I always feel emotional when I watch it. Queen saw themselves as a family. FM treated his fellow band mates very badly and yet, the love they had for him was stronger than any hurt he had caused.

If only our families, our EAC felt that way about us. If only we, their family, had meant as much to them as FM meant to the rest of Queen.

'We are the Champions', we are Warrior Queens, we are Weebles, take your pick but which ever one you identify with, or maybe something else entirely (if so please share), we are here for one another, for the friends we have made and the friends we have yet to meet.

There you go My3sons and this was supposed to be a short post. Just feeling rather emotional this evening, but in a good way. Pleasant dreams everyone x.

It's a long story for another day. While we aren't totally estranged the relationship with my oldest son and DiL is tenuous for the last 3+ years. I grieve the relationship I had with my grandson for the first two years of his life. But I also miss my friendship with my DiL. The rules are different for her mother and myself. I feel like an unwanted outsider treated unfairly. Its complicated how we got here but I acknowledge mistakes I made and apologized to no avail. There are not without fault either but that is not taken into consideration. At times I wonder if it would be better to just give up and stop trying. Perhaps I would eventually make peace with it and move forward without them in my life. At least I wouldn't be in this constant state of confusion, not knowing if or when I will see them again, having every word and action monitored and judged, feeling inferior and slighted when hearing about all the other grandma's time spent with them, being ignored and dismissed on a regular basis, grieving the recent losses of my spouse, a brother, and my parents on my own without their support. Sorry for the long post. I just want it to magically be better but Idk if I will ever get over the hurt.

You're right about the common sense Whiff - DH and I often bemoan the lack of it in some people. Especially when we hear someone complaining, 'nobody ever showed me or told me...' the most basic thing because it's just common sense.

Oh dear, I hope the roof repair isn't too huge a job yogin

Thank goodness for friends who know the truth smiles - you read some of the things and wonder what on earth is going on, and it's easy to start wondering if you're the one who is deluded.

I'm not too fussed about that grey in my hair but I'm not keen on the fact that it seems to have turned to straw since I got older. Not helped by my allergies to loads of hair products so I can't really condition it.

I do hope you can talk to your son Blogsy and sort out something that works for everyone.

Hello mysons123 - sorry you lost your post - I've had that happen a time or two. Welcome, and we hope to hear your story when you can find the energy to have another go. Until then we're glad you found us.

Cleaning day for us today and a nice wallow in the bath afterwards.

I typed up a whole long post about my situation (being new here) and somehow lost it so I will simply say I'm hopeful to find support and advice here on this particular subject. Thank you and hello!

Do come back Blogsy we'll give you whatever support and friendship we can.

Blogsy It is a positive that your DIL is willing for you to babysit. So often it is the opposite with grandparents not seeing their grandchildren after the parents have separated.

I think it is really important that you explain to your son that you babysitting your grandchildren is not about you "taking sides" or "encouraging" the new relationship. This is about you being a grandparent and being able to see and have a relationship with your grandchildren, his children.

It must be very difficult for you seeing him struggling and you can support him with his upset, but that should not include losing your relationship with your grandchildren or spoiling your relationship with your ex DIL which will potentially impact negatively on your relationship with your grandchildren.

I hope that he can see that the priority is his children, and that you are still there for him and also for them

Hello Blogsy I can understand your dilemma here. Have you talked to your son about this and if so, does he have a problem with you baby sitting your GC?

If he does, could you explain that this has nothing to do with any opinion you may have about d.i.l's boyfriend, but is all about you maintaining your relationship with your GC.

I'm sorry your son is struggling, that must be very upsetting for you but I suppose after a three year separation a boyfriend was inevitable at some point.

There are so many GP's who when their AC's relationship breaks down, especially when their AC is their son, lose out on the GP/GC relationship, so this is something to be thankful for, your d.i.l. still wanting you to maintain this.

I hope you and your son will be able to see that this isn't about taking sides, it's away of you remaining a part of your GC's lives.

My mum had beautiful red hair DSL and kept some of the colour her entire life. A silver vixen eh!! can't help but be a little of you for that. I bet it looks fab.

That came up as option when we were looking at Netflix last night, so based on your recommendation, we'll give it a go; no pressure.

So, 'Gruesome Twosome' are visiting tomorrow. Hope it goes well, just remember all those coping mechanisms you've learned and when it comes to the 'elephant in the room' have a shovel and bucket handy to clear up any s..t.

Hello ..My son and his wife have been separated from three yrs ...her choice .she told him to leave...she now has a new boyfriend ..and is asking me to look after the children when she goes out ..it's making me very uncomfortable as my son is struggling with things at the moment ...he can just afford to live ...and is depressed because of everything..what Do I do ..I used to have a good relationship with her!!

Nice as pie, not put. Lol.

I'm a Silver Fox, or maybe thst should read Vixen. ??. Found my first grey hair at 14, now it's pure white. There is no pigment at all. If I have it coloured, even at the salon, it only lasts about 2 weeks. One day I was moaning to my hairdresser and he said "are you nuts, I have clients paying me a fortune to get your hair colour" so now I embrace it. I must admit since I gave up having it coloured it's in much better condition.

No storm damage here. We had an amber warning but it didn't seem too bad at all. Certainly no worse than last week. Must ring my friend in Devon and my SIL in Scotland see how they fared.

Well the Dynamic Duo have invited themselves over tomorrow. Or, as my younger son calls them "the Gruesome Twosome". Naughty of him I know, but it makes me laugh.

Anyway we'll just see how it goes.. my son has been nice as put on the phone this last couple of times and DILs texts have been friendly.

I don't get how they can be so obtuse........as friendly as you like as if nothing was wrong. Talk about ignoring the elephant in the room. You gotta laugh, ain't ya. ??.

If anyone is interested in seeing a female narcissist in action (other than Megan) I can thoroughly recommend "Inventing Anna" - a series on Netflix, based on the true story of Anna Sorokin, a Russian fraudster, going by the name of Anna Delvey who masqueraded as a German heiress while she conned her way through New York high society.

The actor who portrays her is brilliant and it's a riveting watch, even if you do already know how her story ends.

That old adage is so true.......Karma really does repay.

Just give them enough rope.............

There is indeed!

Oh I am glad that colouring my hair has absolutely nothing to do with vanity, just a desire not to look stupid I mean there is a difference isn't there?

I know someone who gets two patches like that and |I tend to agree!!

I wouldn't mind the 'salt and pepper' look as I think it's rather distinguished. I just get two patches, one on each temple and it looks silly!!!

....presto!!

I have total "salt and pepper" and I was a natural red head ...so washing it in henna shampoo every week just lightly stains the "salt" bit and hey persto natural highlights!!

I hide mine by colouring my hair Madgran.