Sign for grandchildren

I've always put my children first, shame my mother didn't.

It doesn't have to be that way does it, and if some parents were prepared to put their children first, it could be avoided

The thing is, those parents believe that they are putting their children first, whether you agree with their reasons or not.

You cannot force people to maintain a relationship against their will, so guilting and shaming them for not being “prepared to put their children first” is fruitless.

My life would have been all the poorer were it not for my paternal Gmother. Simple for me to endorse this action.

And what about the people whose lives WERE poorer?

Several members of my family have signed.
That is what this thread is about. Sign or dont the choice is yours.

Smileless2012

Yes Onward ideal but not always possible. You cannot have any kind of a relationship, good or bad with some one who simply refuses to communicate with you.

Mediation is available. I know of EP's/EGP's who have offered to fund this but it's been refused.

It takes time, but eventually many people realise that as much as they love the person they're estranged from they're better off without them in their lives.

I think it does cause extra distress DiamondLily. A note with no explanation telling you you are no longer a part of your AC's and GC's lives and are to stay away is cowardly, and particularly cruel when it's posted through the door on Christmas Eve.

We are fortunate that we never knew our GC, the eldest less than a year old when we were estranged.

My heart goes out to the GP's who spent time with their GC and built a relationship with them. Who worry that their GC may think they don't love them anymore. Who wont understand why they've suddenly been removed from there lives, because all communication stops including the cards and gifts they used to receive on their birthdays and at Christmas/

Going to court for contact is not ideal but I understand why, when all else fails, some choose to do so. It doesn't have to be that way does it, and if some parents were prepared to put their children first, it could be avoided.

Whatever his reasons for estranging you, I do think he should have found the courage to tell you and his Dad face to face. And tell you why. He’s an adult, and adults should face up to things.

It also seems particularly unkind to do it on Christmas Eve…surely it could have waited until afterwards.

You know, your son might regret all this one day.

My mother really was emotionally cold with me, I was the scapegoat, throughout younger life, and my brother was the golden child. I didn’t estrange, I certainly didn’t disrupt her relationship with my kids, and we did “polite” but no more than that really.

She contracted Alzheimer’s in later life, and was in a wheelchair. Out of duty, I supported her being at home for a time, then fought to get her into a good care home when my dad could no longer cope.

I think she regretted how she’d been with me, especially since her Golden Child, my brother, had turned away when she became unwell. But, it was too late by then, so I carried on helping her, but lacked any actual love towards her.

When the home phoned to say she’d died, my first thought was relief that I no longer had to deal with her.

But my longer lasting thought was regret that, somehow, we hadn’t managed to resolve all our issues.

I didn’t actually grieve for her, I have never cried over her, I didn’t deprive her of the kids, and I did my duty by her.

But, there are still regrets. She could be really kind and generous, but she could never apologise or even explain why she did anything that was unnecessary or unkind. Which she did, frequently. To me and others.

It’s was her way or the highway. In her mind, she was never wrong.

Sad when it ends up like that.

She was a very lucky lady to have had such a kind caring daughter*DL*and taken care of when she most needed it.
You are such a good role model for your children and it sounds as if you did more than your best for her.
Perhaps it was your dad that loved you enough and that love enabled you to show such compassion to your mum. ? .

Diamondlily, I am so sorry you were the Scapegoat. I know only too well what that is like. Recently I confronted it and was told "Well, we have to blame someone" I'm so sad for you that it never changed. You did well, doing your duty. Even though she might never have said it, you were a good daughter. My Mother's Golden Child has shown themselves to not care about her wellbeing, at all, either. I end up feeling sorry for her- and because I've been estranged from my own child I know how painful it is and won't be that person.

It is true that whatever our perception is, is what our reality is.

I've always put my children first as well. I still got estranged though, so it is not fail safe. Adults make their own decisions, we can only hope we put good things into them when they were young, so that even if they go off track, they will return one day.

Thank you Minty for the link to the petition which I have signed and have passed onto others so they can sign too.

Anything that might make it easier for estranged grandparents to go to court so they can carry on seeing their GC is worth pursuing.

I had my gd weekly and spoke to her every day, then I was cut off. We had a very loving relationship, I think I must have posed a threat. Where was her voice at 4 years of age. If I was a threat, how come I wasn’t for the first gc and why wait until she was 4. I have never been accused by my d of any abusive behaviour or anything because there wasn’t, no reason given, nothing. . It broke my heart. Anything that helps a child I will back, anyone that doesn’t agree, doesn’t sign.

Exactly Allsorts as was said by others earlier on in the thread.

Those who won't sign are doing so for the sake of children. It all depends on perspective.

I understand the other side, I just think it will do more harm than help.

I don't think it will ever go through though, there will always be more people against than for because most parents, even if they are now grandparents too, would not want their rights as parents threatened

Those who have and will sign are also doing so for the sake of children VioletSky. I don't think it's helpful to suggest otherwise because as you say "it all depends on perspective".

Myself, family and friends have all signed because it's the children who for us, are the priority.

That's why I've explained why not.

I've had an emotionally abusive mother.

I've been estranged from family members.

I've suffered through my mother trying to alienate me from my dad.

I've had a sexualky abusive grandfather.

I've had a grandmother who knew.

I've been neglected.

I've asked family members for help and been left to drag myself through it all.

There was no voice for me as a child.

Someone has to be that voice.

Sign, don't sign but understand my motivations and why I will always be a voice for those without one.

Read all the many reasons on this thread and really understand what you are asking for.

Yes I've read extensively here on GN about your childhood VioletSky but not all grandparents who have lost their grandchildren have done so because they were abusive.

I don't understand why as it says in the petition, anyone would object to the continuation of safe and established contact. It is to me unjust to come between children and their grandparents, to in effect punish the good because of the bad.

But if there’s a blanket legal assumption that grandparents can have access to their children, it’s going to make it MUCH harder for parents to sever ties with abusive - especially emotionally - or unpleasant eg racist grandparents.

For the overwhelming majority, people who have worked to have a good relationship with their children get to be active grandparents. Most of the grandparents who don’t have access, don’t have it for bloody good reason.

There’s the minority who have been distanced ‘unfairly’, and they all seem to be on Gransnet for some reason…

Just like all the grown children that were treated unfairly are, for some reason?
It cuts both ways.

“Someone has to be that voice”But your taking away that chance for other children

If you’d had loving family around you at that time in your life then perhaps they’d have been that voice.

I think you’re experience strengthens the case for loving family to be in contact.

Your*

I'm not against loving family being in contact...

Why do people think that?

It's bizarre.

I'm just looking at the bugger picture

VioletSky, I acknowledge your story, as you report it. I have posted my reasons for not signing this petition.
In your post at 19.24 you seem to say you speak for the voiceless. You may be suggesting you speak for voiceless children. That’s an impossibility. You can only speak for the child you were. Anyone attempting to speak for all children is making assumptions that may be wrong.

It’s also important to acknowledge that many of the posters who did sign the petition feel they are voiceless, shut down, shut out and marginalised.

Remember. None of us has a monopoly on feeling excluded, feeling hurt, ignored and abused.

Well, I'm glad you "acknowledge my story as I report it".

Now tell me how I prove any of it to a court of law so I can protect my own children when I can barely get an acknowledgement that what I said may be true.

Yes highlighting possibly outcomes or flaws in this idea is being a voice for the voiceless. In the same way past victims of abuse have shaped future safeguarding changes.

AmberSpyglass

But if there’s a blanket legal assumption that grandparents can have access to their children, it’s going to make it MUCH harder for parents to sever ties with abusive - especially emotionally - or unpleasant eg racist grandparents.

For the overwhelming majority, people who have worked to have a good relationship with their children get to be active grandparents. Most of the grandparents who don’t have access, don’t have it for bloody good reason.

There’s the minority who have been distanced ‘unfairly’, and they all seem to be on Gransnet for some reason…

You’re right that the majority of grandparents have a good relationship with their adult children ‘and get to be active grandparents’.
Unnecessarily unpleasant to refer to those who have been distanced “unfairly’. To go on and say they all seem to be on Gransnet is offensive, inaccurate and goading. You do not have the moral high ground, here, much as you clearly believe you do.

Family breakdown estrangement is devastating for all, including the children in its midst. It’s worth remembering, the loss surrounding estrangement hurts, even if you have been distanced “unfairly’

Agedp1953

Those who have and will sign are also doing so for the sake of children VioletSky. I don't think it's helpful to suggest otherwise because as you say "it all depends on perspective".

Myself, family and friends have all signed because it's the children who for us, are the priority.

I refuse to sign, because it’s the children who, for me, are the priority.

I can’t see a change like this helping them.

I don’t think it’s helpful to suggest those who won’t sign don’t make children the priority

I have to wonder, for the people who sign this, what outcome do you wish to see?

That Grandparents can not be kept away from Grandchildren unilaterally across the board?
That the system is reworked to make it easier?
Something else?

My next question is, how do you propose your intended goal be carried out? What is your plan, knowing that some AC are cutting off contact because of emotional abuse that is hard to prove, to keep those children safe?

I believe that when we stand for something, anything, we have the responsibility to investigate the effects on people other than ourselves.

Saying, "it doesnt matter, I just want to see my Grandchild" (this is a generalized statement, not that anyone here has said it) is always going to be counteracted with "it doesn't matter, I just want to keep my child safe".

I have said this before but, until the two above groups find a way to work together in the interest of ALL, there will be no progress.

It is a tragedy when a loving Grandparent is cut off from a Grandchild. It is a bigger tragedy when an innocent child is abused because they can not be cut off from a Grandparent.